so the House of Representatives voted on this, and now the President signs it?
What about the Senate's reconciliation bill which would reportedly send Joba to Scranton to get his innings as a starter?
I've been pretty convinced bythe arguments people have made here and elsewhere that this may be a waste of Joba's preparation over the past two years. But I still think thebottom line is that he didn't get it done this spring. The comments about needing his manager to give him some motivation are telling. Ithink the Yankees see somethingsimilar ro what I see: A guy who is best-suited to gettig high leverage outs late in games, rather than turning over a lineup three + times. To the extent anyone can, I hope we see Joba get groomed to take over for Mo.
i can't say i am terribly happy about this.
i do think it is a waste of joba's preparation, but more importantly i am not convinced hughes is a better starting pitcher than joba. if he has a good season, than great, i'll certainly be happy, but i am not right now.
and i damn sure hope they have a better hughes plan than a joba plan once hughes gets near his inning limits assuming he pitches enough to do so.
the article states joba is in the mix to pitch the 8th - i don't even have words for that.
[4] It will be tough if the team is in contention, but I hope they simply use Hughes until he hits his limit, then shut him down. barring injury, they would not need him in the rotation for the playoffs. Hopefully they would not him in the late innings, either. In fact, Joba should have enough innings that even if he is a starter, he can be moved to the BP for the playoffs.
Or so I hope.
the article states joba is in the mix to pitch the 8th – i don’t even have words for that.
Hughes made seven starts at the beginning of last season, then was moved to the bullpen after Chien-Ming Wang got hurt.
That's not exactly the causal chain of events, but in effect that's what it boils down to. It worked out in the end (world series and all), but the decision still blows my mind.
[3] Regardless of the outcome, I really hope the Yankees really didn't make this decision based on a handful of spring starts.
Having said that, I think it is very likely that Joba is only the 6th best starter on the team. If Hughes really does have a 170 innings limit, he can probably wont have too many handcuffs during the year, especially if the Yankees wisely skip when possible.
As for Joba, his role in the bullpen may actually strengthen the 2010 team, but it does really make you wonder if the Yankees are being short sighted. If he spends the whole year in the pen, and worse as a short inning guy, there will be no way to determine his future as a starter in 2011. With Pettitte and Vasquez not guaranteed to return, the Yankees would be in much better shape if they had both Hughes and Chamberlain ready to start by then.
Perhaps the only thing that makes this decision understandable from a long-term perspective is the Yankees believe Chamberlain needs to work on some mechanical flaws, and that being close to the major league staff is the best way to do that. If they decided to use him as a longer type reliever, he could stay sharp enough to step into the rotation this season, and also realign himself for the rotation next season. If they relegate him to the 8th inning, however, I fear they are wasting his potential talents.
That loud, startling noise you hear outside your windows is the Yankee blogoshpere blowing up.
It's so much more peaceful here. Here's the thing: Hughes has apparently pushed himself further along the development curve this offseason and has passed Joba, and the Yankees RIGHT NOW see him as the superior option. To rage and complain about the use of a 24-year-old pitcher, when the front office has shown itself so supremely together the last few years, seems like a waste of energy.
[11] But how exactly did Hughes push himself past Joba? In 4 spring training starts? Sure, the front office has been done well, but the one place they have been lacking is how they have handled Joba. His usage last year was disaster. Now, they are pretty much scrapping that plan, but for what? Joba is a valuable enough asset that concern over how he is used is hardly a waste of energy.
Spring Training rotation decisions don't mean much. By June, the rotation, for all we know, will turned on its head. I think that Hughes is ultimately more nuanced than Joba (which is not to say that I'm forming an opinion as to who should start), which might be perceived as better starter material.
The coaches also might know something we don't (not possible).
I say let's hang back and watch how the show unfolds.
I'll wait for the other shoe to drop. Our best hope is Logan is really good today. It is telling though that they haven't announced Joba for the bullpen yet. That to me is a good sign...I hope.
"By June, the rotation, for all we know, will turned on its head."
Except last year they refused to do the obvious with Hughes. It worked out. But if they had put Hughes in the rotation last year, they would have had much more information to evaluate this year.
Based on Girardi's comments, it looks like they want to send a message to Joba that he needs to earn a spot in the rotation. If their plans are to groom him as a future closer, they would give him the 8th inning job. Best case, he performs well in the pen and moves into the rotation in June as an injury replacement. How many teams have all 5 starters stay healthy from April - Sept? Rays in 08 is the only example I can think of.
And Aceves has them immediately regretting the decision on Gaudin. Can't Aceves be optioned this year? Gaudin could have been if they kept him. Worse, they had until March31st to make a decision. Why not use all of that time especially when they couldn't trade him?
It's dumb decisions like that which make me doubt the front office. Fine, release Gaudin. But wait until the last possible minute. Why do you have to lose? What if Aceves is hurt right now?
[12] I agree. Joba was poorly handled. But, what if he didn't let all the crazines of the last season rattle him? He probably wouldn't be in this position now.
Aside from one bad outing, did Joba have such a bad spring training? I thought his last two outing were good. That makes me think that the decision was made beforehand. Just a theory.
[11] "the front office has shown itself so supremely together the last few years"?
I think "supremely" is a bit much. I mean right in front of our face is an example of how it's not true.
This is just sooooooo lame. It really makes me think they don't know what they're doing. They treat Chamberlain like a faberge egg and after all the contortions and contrivances, he goes to the bullpen? I wish they would just start him and end this stupidity once and for all. And remember - I am a Joba is a reliever guy.
[23] The fact they haven't already announced shifting him to the bullpen tells me he's going to AAA. Basically that's going to feel like a huge demotion after 2.5 years in the Show. So they'll let him hang around until the end of Spring Training and not make a dead man walking. We'll get the story in a week.
This is not how I was hoping things would work out. Apparently some people have done the numbers and Phil can go the whole season after his first start is pushed back and with him being skipped a couple of times. So hopefully he doesn't get the full Joba rules.
What I'm hoping won't happen is that Burnet gets a knot in his back or something and misses a game here or there and they yank Joba out of the pen and into a starting role and then crap on him for not pitching a quality game. That would basically be the worst case scenario and it would mean I'd actually hope that they trade him to someone else so he can be a good pitcher (or not be a good pitcher - whatever). And we get something for him. 8th inning guy is not where it's at.
There will need to be a 6th starter at some point and the only way Joba can be that starter is if he's down in Scranton getting practice.
If Joba is meant to be a starter, and still has the will to be a starter, he'll eventually get more opportunities to prove himself.
For now, I'm not complaining. When we last saw Joba working out of the pen (8th inning, Game 5 World Series), he was throwing 97mph. Yeah, Feliz took him deep - but he vaporized Werth and Ibanez.
I just hope he gets innings aplenty this year, 2 at a time.
From what little I've seen of Hughes this spring, he's been a bit of a scary fly ball guy, but I love his stuff, and he seems to be a bright, focused, and ambitious kid. Go get 'em, Big Shoes Hughes!
I thought that, with Hughes having been so successful in the pen last season, that he could be groomed for the closer role. In my mind practically anyone can be (and has been) a 5th starter. If the Yankee thinking is that they'll need starters in 2011 and 2012, they'd be better off looking for another left hander since all great Yankee teams have two great left handed starters. Frankly, I do not see everything everyone else seems to see in Chamberlain. I think he was overhyped. Using my own test (seeing them live) Hughes always has looked like the better pitcher.
so the House of Representatives voted on this, and now the President signs it?
What about the Senate's reconciliation bill which would reportedly send Joba to Scranton to get his innings as a starter?
[1] depends on how a certain amendment to bring Enrique Wilson back does.
I've been pretty convinced bythe arguments people have made here and elsewhere that this may be a waste of Joba's preparation over the past two years. But I still think thebottom line is that he didn't get it done this spring. The comments about needing his manager to give him some motivation are telling. Ithink the Yankees see somethingsimilar ro what I see: A guy who is best-suited to gettig high leverage outs late in games, rather than turning over a lineup three + times. To the extent anyone can, I hope we see Joba get groomed to take over for Mo.
i can't say i am terribly happy about this.
i do think it is a waste of joba's preparation, but more importantly i am not convinced hughes is a better starting pitcher than joba. if he has a good season, than great, i'll certainly be happy, but i am not right now.
and i damn sure hope they have a better hughes plan than a joba plan once hughes gets near his inning limits assuming he pitches enough to do so.
the article states joba is in the mix to pitch the 8th - i don't even have words for that.
[4] It will be tough if the team is in contention, but I hope they simply use Hughes until he hits his limit, then shut him down. barring injury, they would not need him in the rotation for the playoffs. Hopefully they would not him in the late innings, either. In fact, Joba should have enough innings that even if he is a starter, he can be moved to the BP for the playoffs.
Or so I hope.
the article states joba is in the mix to pitch the 8th – i don’t even have words for that.
Don't you mean THE EIGHTH INNING! ?
[0] My favorite line from the AP article:
Hughes made seven starts at the beginning of last season, then was moved to the bullpen after Chien-Ming Wang got hurt.
That's not exactly the causal chain of events, but in effect that's what it boils down to. It worked out in the end (world series and all), but the decision still blows my mind.
[3] Regardless of the outcome, I really hope the Yankees really didn't make this decision based on a handful of spring starts.
Having said that, I think it is very likely that Joba is only the 6th best starter on the team. If Hughes really does have a 170 innings limit, he can probably wont have too many handcuffs during the year, especially if the Yankees wisely skip when possible.
As for Joba, his role in the bullpen may actually strengthen the 2010 team, but it does really make you wonder if the Yankees are being short sighted. If he spends the whole year in the pen, and worse as a short inning guy, there will be no way to determine his future as a starter in 2011. With Pettitte and Vasquez not guaranteed to return, the Yankees would be in much better shape if they had both Hughes and Chamberlain ready to start by then.
Perhaps the only thing that makes this decision understandable from a long-term perspective is the Yankees believe Chamberlain needs to work on some mechanical flaws, and that being close to the major league staff is the best way to do that. If they decided to use him as a longer type reliever, he could stay sharp enough to step into the rotation this season, and also realign himself for the rotation next season. If they relegate him to the 8th inning, however, I fear they are wasting his potential talents.
[5] yes, 8th inning - how foolish of me!
[6] yeah i saw that too. i guess the ap's fact checker was off today.
[7] i am probably knee-jerk reacting but i think this really clouds joba's future.
does anybody have the latest Joba Map? My 2009 version still has him as a starter, while Siam and Kamkatcha are still countries.
I always found Phil to be the Ghostface to Joba's Meth.
That loud, startling noise you hear outside your windows is the Yankee blogoshpere blowing up.
It's so much more peaceful here. Here's the thing: Hughes has apparently pushed himself further along the development curve this offseason and has passed Joba, and the Yankees RIGHT NOW see him as the superior option. To rage and complain about the use of a 24-year-old pitcher, when the front office has shown itself so supremely together the last few years, seems like a waste of energy.
[11] But how exactly did Hughes push himself past Joba? In 4 spring training starts? Sure, the front office has been done well, but the one place they have been lacking is how they have handled Joba. His usage last year was disaster. Now, they are pretty much scrapping that plan, but for what? Joba is a valuable enough asset that concern over how he is used is hardly a waste of energy.
Spring Training rotation decisions don't mean much. By June, the rotation, for all we know, will turned on its head. I think that Hughes is ultimately more nuanced than Joba (which is not to say that I'm forming an opinion as to who should start), which might be perceived as better starter material.
The coaches also might know something we don't (not possible).
I say let's hang back and watch how the show unfolds.
I'll wait for the other shoe to drop. Our best hope is Logan is really good today. It is telling though that they haven't announced Joba for the bullpen yet. That to me is a good sign...I hope.
[9] the latest Joba map, has him going from Rivendell to Mordor, by way of the Gulf of Lhun!
starter. set up. middle reliever. middle america. middle earth. . . .
"By June, the rotation, for all we know, will turned on its head."
Except last year they refused to do the obvious with Hughes. It worked out. But if they had put Hughes in the rotation last year, they would have had much more information to evaluate this year.
Based on Girardi's comments, it looks like they want to send a message to Joba that he needs to earn a spot in the rotation. If their plans are to groom him as a future closer, they would give him the 8th inning job. Best case, he performs well in the pen and moves into the rotation in June as an injury replacement. How many teams have all 5 starters stay healthy from April - Sept? Rays in 08 is the only example I can think of.
And I see Logan has already pitched well....hope rising.
And Aceves has them immediately regretting the decision on Gaudin. Can't Aceves be optioned this year? Gaudin could have been if they kept him. Worse, they had until March31st to make a decision. Why not use all of that time especially when they couldn't trade him?
It's dumb decisions like that which make me doubt the front office. Fine, release Gaudin. But wait until the last possible minute. Why do you have to lose? What if Aceves is hurt right now?
[12] I agree. Joba was poorly handled. But, what if he didn't let all the crazines of the last season rattle him? He probably wouldn't be in this position now.
Aside from one bad outing, did Joba have such a bad spring training? I thought his last two outing were good. That makes me think that the decision was made beforehand. Just a theory.
Meanwhile, Torre never lets us down...
Padilla named Opening Day starter
[20] It was definitely Hughes' to lose.
[11] "the front office has shown itself so supremely together the last few years"?
I think "supremely" is a bit much. I mean right in front of our face is an example of how it's not true.
This is just sooooooo lame. It really makes me think they don't know what they're doing. They treat Chamberlain like a faberge egg and after all the contortions and contrivances, he goes to the bullpen? I wish they would just start him and end this stupidity once and for all. And remember - I am a Joba is a reliever guy.
[23] The fact they haven't already announced shifting him to the bullpen tells me he's going to AAA. Basically that's going to feel like a huge demotion after 2.5 years in the Show. So they'll let him hang around until the end of Spring Training and not make a dead man walking. We'll get the story in a week.
Or maybe I'm a delusional optimist...
This is not how I was hoping things would work out. Apparently some people have done the numbers and Phil can go the whole season after his first start is pushed back and with him being skipped a couple of times. So hopefully he doesn't get the full Joba rules.
What I'm hoping won't happen is that Burnet gets a knot in his back or something and misses a game here or there and they yank Joba out of the pen and into a starting role and then crap on him for not pitching a quality game. That would basically be the worst case scenario and it would mean I'd actually hope that they trade him to someone else so he can be a good pitcher (or not be a good pitcher - whatever). And we get something for him. 8th inning guy is not where it's at.
There will need to be a 6th starter at some point and the only way Joba can be that starter is if he's down in Scranton getting practice.
If Joba is meant to be a starter, and still has the will to be a starter, he'll eventually get more opportunities to prove himself.
For now, I'm not complaining. When we last saw Joba working out of the pen (8th inning, Game 5 World Series), he was throwing 97mph. Yeah, Feliz took him deep - but he vaporized Werth and Ibanez.
I just hope he gets innings aplenty this year, 2 at a time.
From what little I've seen of Hughes this spring, he's been a bit of a scary fly ball guy, but I love his stuff, and he seems to be a bright, focused, and ambitious kid. Go get 'em, Big Shoes Hughes!
I thought that, with Hughes having been so successful in the pen last season, that he could be groomed for the closer role. In my mind practically anyone can be (and has been) a 5th starter. If the Yankee thinking is that they'll need starters in 2011 and 2012, they'd be better off looking for another left hander since all great Yankee teams have two great left handed starters. Frankly, I do not see everything everyone else seems to see in Chamberlain. I think he was overhyped. Using my own test (seeing them live) Hughes always has looked like the better pitcher.