"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

2010 Seattle Mariners

Okay, so I just wrote one of the longest previews I’ve ever written getting some stuff off my chest that’s been there since November and shoved aside some other important work to do it. But it all got erased. So while I try not to lose my mind, here’s the roster of the Mariners, who have scored just 3.4 runs per game this year, but are running out one of the league’s best pitchers tonight.

Seattle Mariners

2010 Record: 31-44 (.413)
2010 Pythagorean Record: 30-45 (.400)

2009 Record: 85-77 (.525)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 75-87 (.463)

Manager: Don Wakamatsu
General Manager: Jack Zduriencik

Home Ballpark: Safeco Field

Bill James Park Indexes (2009):
LH Avg-97, LH HR-111
RH Avg-96, RH HR-84

Who’s replacing whom:

  • Chone Figgins replaces Adrian Beltre
  • Jack Wilson takes over Yuniesky Betancourt and Ronny Cedeño’s playing time
  • Josh Bard (DL) who replaces Kenji Johjima
  • Milton Bradley was replacing Russell Branyan and is now replacing Ken Griffey Jr.
  • Michael Saunders replaces Wladimir Balentien and Endy Chavez
  • Casey Kotchman replaces Jack Hannahan and Bill Hall
  • Cliff Lee replaces Jarrod Washburn
  • Ryan Rowland-Smith replaces the starts of Brandon Morrow and Carlos Silva
  • Doug Fister replaces the starts of Ian Snell (minors) and Garrett Olson
  • Jason Vargas replaces the starts of Chris Jakubauskas and some of starts by Erik Bedard (DL)
  • Brandon League replaces Miguel Batista
  • Chad Cordero replaces the relief innings of Vargas, Morrow, and Jakubauskas
  • Brian Sweeney is filling in for Mark Lowe (DL)
  • David Pauley is filling in for Shawn Kelley (DL)

25-man roster:

1B – Russell Branyan (L)
2B – Chone Figgins (S)
SS – Jack Wilson (R)
3B – Jose Lopez (R)
C – Josh Bard (S)
RF – Ichiro Suzuki (L)
CF – Franklin Gutierrez (R)
LF – Michael Saunders (L)
DH – Milton Bradley (S)


L – Casey Kotchman (1B)
L – Ryan Langerhans (OF)
R – Josh Wilson (IF)
R – Eliezer Alfonzo (C)


L – Cliff Lee
R – Felix Hernandez
L – Ryan Rowland-Smith
R – Doug Fister
L – Jason Vargas


R – David Aardsma
R – Brandon League
R – Sean White
L – Garrett Olson
R – Chad Cordero
R – Brian Sweeney
R – David Pauley

15-day DL:

RHP – Mark Lowe (back surgery)
RHP – Shawn Kelley (right elbow inflammation)
1B – Mike Sweeney (back)

60-day DL:

LHP – Erik Bedard (rehab from shoulder surgery)

Typical lineup:

L – Ichiro Suzuki (RF)
S – Chone Figgins (2B)
S – Milton Bradley (DH)
L – Russell Branyan (1B)
R – Jose Lopez (3B)
R – Franklin Gutierrez (CF)
S – Josh Bard (C)
R – Jack Wilson (SS)
L – Michael Saunders (LF)

S – Josh Bard (C)

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Series Preview

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 5:57 pm

Oooh, sorry Cliff, that sucks. You need an autosave thingy.

Hey, I think Cashman should be looking into trading for Carlos Zambrano. I'm serious. The price has to be lowwwwww right about now...

2 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:33 pm

[1] yikes. Pass.

3 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:36 pm

[2] Yeah, not no, but HELL NO.

4 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:38 pm


I'd take my chances on VICTOR Zambrano first.

5 Cliff Corcoran   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:39 pm

[4] They did that last year (or was that two years ago now). At any rate, I was doing a pretty good Carlos Zambrano impression about an hour ago, is that sufficient?

6 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:43 pm

[5] well, I imagine that right now you would be more effective than AJ, and since the willingness to gamble on Zambrano is fueled by AJ's struggles...yeah, that is sufficient.

7 tommyl   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:43 pm

[0] Damnit! Now I really want to know what was in that preview. It's like Fermat's last theorem for the modern age.

8 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:52 pm

You're all a bunch of wusses.
Chemistry. Bah.

9 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:53 pm
10 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:55 pm

[8] I know you're joking, some, but for me it's not about chemistry. I just have a bad feeling that he is in full meltdown mode. My spidey sense tells me they would end up giving up a useful part or two for a player who will end up not helping the team at all.

I think the Yankees have a better chance to turAJ around than to get anything out of the guy who is now on the restricted list.

11 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:56 pm
12 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 6:56 pm

[11] And of course, his contract ...

13 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:03 pm

But, his career.
Obviously, he's having some problem this year. Unless you think his future is going to be like the first half of this year, rather than like the rest of his career, you have to love his pitching.

14 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:06 pm

Gonna be hard to top Sunday's game.

The funniest thing is when I went in to work on Monday, all my coworkers assumed the Yankees had lost. They were cursing them out and everything. They were stunned when I told them what happened.

Though I'm not sure I want to be known as "the one who stays up way too late watching baseball games."

15 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:07 pm

But he's been a nutter for a while, and he has already got a lot of mileage on his arm at age 29.

16 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:08 pm

Isner should be our long reliever for the rest of the season.

17 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:10 pm

[15] I know, he's nuts. But he seems to be able to play very well with it, except this year. And sure, he's 29 -- I thought everyone was drooling over the prospect of getting Cliff Lee, no?

18 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:11 pm


19 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:11 pm

Let's Go Yankees!

20 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:12 pm


21 tommyl   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:12 pm

Hey, it's Chone Figgins! He should be batting .385 by the end of this series.

22 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:13 pm

That strike was a ball when Phil threw it to Figgins. I hope it's not one of those Wildly Fluctuating Zone days.

23 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:14 pm

[9] I watched that earlier. Brutal. Zumaya was in tears.

24 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:15 pm

Hey, the curve ball! I knew he'd throw it eventually!

25 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:16 pm


Basically, he fractured his funny bone. :-(

26 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:16 pm

But, his career.

From Christina Kahrl over at BP:

Still, if you're the one who happens to live in the shadow of a volcano, you can understand how you might wish to moderate its baneful effects. Why tolerate the seemingly inevitable kabooms? To some extent, tolerance can be tied to performance, and Zambrano's gradual decline has been a fact of life since 2004, when he became the staff's true ace. Consider the broad strokes of his track record:
2003 32 214 .576
2004 31 209.2 .607
2005 33 223.1 .577
2006 33 214 .567
2007 34 216.1 .547
2008 30 188.2 .542
2009 28 169.1 .525
2010 9 55.2 .392

That's a guy who was once an ace, but who has become less effective and less durable over time.

So, yes, I'd say there is plenty to worry about in his performance alone ...

27 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:16 pm

Oooh. Continuing the Anger Management theme, Milton Bradley missed a gopher ball there. Whew.

28 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:17 pm

[26] What's SNWP?

29 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:18 pm

[28] Support Neutral Winning Percentage

30 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:20 pm



31 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:20 pm

Take that, Lee!

32 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:20 pm


33 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:22 pm

The Yankees have surprisingly very good numbers against Lee. Not including the World Series, the starting lineup has an OPS against Lee that is over .900.

34 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:23 pm

[29] Ohhhh.
That's a weird (and to me, useless) statistic.

Look, in 2001-04, he was a great, great pitcher. Then, until last year, he was a good pitcher. His ERA+ was 117, 118, 119, which is Andy Pettitte's career average.

I think this year is some kind of aberration. If it's not, if it just signals the end of his career, then he's worthless. But most of the time, an under-30 pitcher does not drop off a cliff.

35 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:25 pm

without corresponding #'s (sorry, i'm eating and multi-tasking as it is...)

cliff - SORRY!!!! (been there, bro...)

i don't want Big Z on my club, but i cringe at everyone ganging up on my pal, RI. so...i'm gonna join his side so he's not alone. i might not agree, but i gotta stick by my buddy. i'm fiercely loyal! : )

yikes - i saw the zumaya pitch last night. it hurt my elbow watching it. ouch! poor kid. i hope he's fully healed by next season. i'd imagine he'll be petrified to throw again, let alone air it out to triple digits.

and, oh yeah...


36 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:27 pm

We've already seen two plays Gardner probably makes. Incredibly, Gardner may be the teams second best player over the first half. I don't think I have ever been more wrong about a player.

37 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:27 pm

Chod Haffman almost made the catch of the year.

38 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:28 pm


39 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:29 pm


40 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:29 pm

Kill it with a stick.

41 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:29 pm

Hughes' fastball seems to be leaking over the plate.

42 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:29 pm

damn didn't want to give that run back so fast.

43 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:29 pm

I'd swear the Yankee Stadium grass is worse since the prizefight earlier in the month.

44 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:30 pm

[35] Hey thanks! (Though not at all necessary.)

Thelarmis, do you know the Oliver Sacks essay about the Tourettic drummer?

45 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:31 pm

[43] It definitely is.

46 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:32 pm

That's bad.

47 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:32 pm

damn that was weird.

48 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:33 pm

[17] every else may be drooling, but not me.

49 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:33 pm


50 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:35 pm

[44] fine. then i'll gang up on ya along with everyone else! : p

nope, don't know about the drummer essay. but i did get my cd mastered today! : )

51 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:35 pm

Nick Swisher's batting average now stands at .292. It has never been over .280 this late in any prior season. #Mariners-#Yankees

52 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:35 pm

[48] drooling - over the girl in the car wash video from an earlier post? yeah, i'm still drooling...

what was weird?!

53 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:40 pm

Evening, Team.

I can't keep my eyes open for the heat.

Listen up, though, I *may* have an extra ticket for Thursday's game, free of charge.

Any interested persons should email me at weeping_for_brunnhilde at yahoo.

54 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:40 pm

[50] Nice.
Well, it's very interesting. I remembered it while I was watching soccer, you'll be delighted to hear. Because the US goalie is also Tourettic.

Diane (or anyone else), I have an embarrassing question. What are those [51] # signs? Do they have some twitter significance?

In exchange for this information, I can give you this very excellent word: octothorp.

55 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:42 pm

some of omar minaya's finest work.

56 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:42 pm


Its a Twitter "hashtag" ... it helps folks track conversation topics.

p.s. I think its OCTOTHORPE

57 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:43 pm

A WALK!!!!!

58 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:44 pm

Well done, JoPo!

59 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:44 pm

a walk and a hr, can cliff lee handle the pressure of yankee stadium?

60 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:44 pm

[54,56] Ogie Ogolthorpe's mom from Slapshot had octuplets?

61 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:44 pm

Good job, Jorge, that was a tough walk.

[56] Oh.

Well, New Oxford American says it can be spelled with or without the "e", and I like the look better without.

62 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:45 pm

C'mon Cloris Leachman!

63 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:46 pm


64 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:46 pm


65 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:46 pm


Cool .... I didn't know that!

66 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:46 pm

Wow. And Cano hit a hard line drive, too.

67 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:46 pm


68 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:47 pm

Hate to pick on Huffman, but the Yankees have really felt Gardner's absence in only two innings.

69 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:47 pm

[65] That's small consolation to me. I hoped I was giving you a new vocabulary item.

70 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:47 pm

Not this time, Ken Huffman.

71 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:48 pm


I like diacritical marks .... I'm a nerd.

72 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:49 pm

[71] i do too!!!

73 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:50 pm

[71] I'm a critic. Does that mean I have to like dianerdical marks?

Ohhhh... maybe you are dianerdical! You must marry a man named Marx and take his name.

74 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:50 pm

ugh. that's worse than a leadoff walk...

75 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:51 pm

That Ichiro guy is a very good hitter.

76 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:51 pm

Shitty hitting teams should NOT have leadoff doubles in consecutive innings. Fuck.

77 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:51 pm


I thought Phil started off very well. I can't see any difference in the pitches. Maybe getting more of the plate.

78 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:51 pm

fucking crap.

79 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:52 pm


Heh ...

My initials are DBF .... and back in the day of Lotus and dBase, I thought I should get involved with someone with the initials WKS :-)

80 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:53 pm


Is Eiland a spy or something?

81 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:54 pm

Harkey vs. Eiland has some history: :-)

82 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:54 pm

50 pitches. no outs...

83 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 7:55 pm

that's what i'm talkin' about!

84 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:01 pm

That Jeter kid seems to be coming around.

85 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:02 pm

Just let it go, Kay.

86 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:04 pm

[85] dare I ask what he's going on about, says he who is listening to the mariners' broadcast.

87 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:06 pm

[86] He's just outraged that an umpire would dare to publicly criticize the pace of Boston-New York games.

88 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:07 pm


I'll take that.

89 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:08 pm

Better to be lucky than good.
Not really, just something you say.

90 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:08 pm


Phil is missing his spots *badly* tonite.

91 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:09 pm

Not Phil's night.

Hang in there, Phil.

92 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:09 pm

[87] ah, I see. Well, I actually agreed with Joe West that one, though whether it's appropriate for an active umpire to make such public statements is another story. Anyway, that whole debate is soooooo April.

93 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:10 pm

Hughes hasn't missed location this often all season. It's a necessary evil, but skipping Hughes is going to have a double negative impact each time they do it.

94 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:11 pm

[93] I'm not convinced they have to skip him again, actually. It will depend on a few factors that are hard to predict.

95 Chyll Will   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:13 pm

[94] Baseball being one of them...

96 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:13 pm

Yeah, Phil has just got to keep them close for another couple of innings and hopefully the Yankees can scratch a couple of runs. The Mariners announcers make is sound like the Yankees have hit a bunch of line drives for outs. Are they making solid contact?

97 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:13 pm

[95] John! So good of you to drop in! I thought you'd be otherwise occupied.

98 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:13 pm

It's amazing that Alex is fifth in RBI.

You wouldn't know it to watch him.

99 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:14 pm

[94] if his limit really is 180 innings, they probably don't need to skip him again, at least if my back of the envelope calculations from last week were correct.

100 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:14 pm

Fuck a duck.

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:14 pm

[96] Yes. Robinson, and... someone else. Teixeira? Not Cervelli. Swisher popped out. Anyway, seems like they're hitting it pretty hard.

102 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:15 pm

I don't think a healthy Arod misses that pitch.

103 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:15 pm

... and that one was not exactly a pop-out.

104 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:17 pm

That was a farily easy inning for Lee...his pitch count is back on track for about 8 innings.

105 Chyll Will   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:18 pm

[97] I can be rather unpredictable at times; I may have to do the Ol' 23 Skidoo so I can be behind the mike by the second pitch of the next half of the inning...

106 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:19 pm

Another double.

107 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:19 pm

Are you fucking kidding me?

108 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:19 pm

I'm not happy about the lead-off-hit-every-inning thing.

109 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:20 pm

Hughes has been way off....I really hope the Yankees didn't screw him up.

110 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:20 pm

[102] Agreed. Any other year, that's 450' to CF.
The Mariners announcer said that Lee's BB to Posada was first his Walk in 38 Innings. 38 Innings! Sick. That's more then 4 games without a Walk.

111 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:21 pm

Half to walk Ichiro hear....one more run and it's ballgame.

112 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:21 pm

Damn it.

113 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:21 pm

[111] Guess they forgot to wake up Girardi...why does he even bother to sit in the dugout?

114 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:23 pm

oh no. what the fuck is up w/ all these goddamn leadoff doubles?! FUCK!!! : /

115 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:23 pm

[111] Rampant homophony!

116 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:23 pm

Man, he calls 'em late.

117 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:23 pm

Grab your glove, Choad.

118 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:23 pm

[115] That's just awful...I type so fast, I outrun my brain!

119 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:27 pm

I don't think 10-5 is so great when 6 of those games were against the Astros and Dbacks.

120 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:27 pm

Why a LHP ever throws Granderson anything that isn't a breaker is beyond me ...

121 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:27 pm

Bunt and run. Hit and run. Steal. Whatever. Get Curtis to 2nd.

122 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:29 pm

Hey Country Joe ... the strike zone begins at the knees, not where the socks end.

123 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:30 pm

[121] Nope...Curtis is just fine right where he is.

124 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:31 pm

Some interesting thoughts by Goldman here:

And he drops this nugget:
He’s waking up. In his last 10 games, the 20-year-old is hitting .342/.375/.711 with three home runs in 38 at-bats, boosting his overall rates for the month to .299/.337/.540.

125 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:31 pm

Now Lee is on pace to pitch nine innings.

126 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:31 pm

As the season goes on, Cervelli's offense gets harder and harder to look forward to.

127 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:34 pm

[126] Cervelli has hit his way back to being a nice defensive backup.

128 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:34 pm

The radio fed online is lagging a god bit behind the game. That combined with Lee's clever strategy to have every other Yankee line out hard on the second pitch of the AB means that just about the time I post a comment the Yankees half of the inning is already over!

129 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:34 pm


130 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:35 pm

[128] The hard line puts stopped in the third inning.

131 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:35 pm

[127] yep. The thought of him starting more than about 40 to 50 games is a bit frightening.

132 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:36 pm

[130] hard for me to tell on the radiophone. The m's announcers made it sound like Jeter struck the ball pretty hard.

133 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:37 pm

I get the feeling this is the last inning for sir Phil.

134 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:38 pm

[132] It was a soft liner to first...not hit well at all.

135 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:38 pm

Can anyone tell me the status of Gritner?

136 RIYank   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:38 pm

No, don't like this. No IBB!
I guess they figure they can't score enough runs if even Bradley scores.

137 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:39 pm

[135] Day-to-day with a bruised forearm.

138 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:40 pm

This game sucks.

139 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:40 pm

Oh, Jesus.

140 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:41 pm


So much for this duel of Aces.

141 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:41 pm

And that folks is the ballgame...five runs to the Mariners is frightening. I really hope the Yankees haven't managed to screw up Hughes. This hasn't been the best year for organizational decisions, so hopefully this isn't another one that backfires.

142 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:42 pm

Well, Girardi's decided to pack it in ... NOgan's warming in the pen.

143 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:42 pm

not good phil (better do better on sunday)

144 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:42 pm

goddamn it. they score even w/out the leadoff man getting on.

fuck this noize

145 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:43 pm

Leaving Hughes in this ballgame was pure stupidity. It was obvious he had nothing today. In fact, he probably shouldn't have come out for the sixth.

Joe Girardi is remarkable in his ability to completely mismanage just about every game in which the Yankees do not dominate. Some day the Yankees will hire a competent manager. I just hope they still have the same talent when they finally get around to doing so.

146 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:43 pm

holy mother of fucking bullshit.

why the fuck did we have to skip hughes?! : /

(i know why...)

147 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:45 pm

[141] if the Yankees screwed up Hughes by skipping him one start, then he's a fragile flower indeed.

148 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:45 pm

did eiland go out for any meetings tonight?

149 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:46 pm

[147] Pitcher's are a creature of habit...if his lack of command lingers another game, who knows if it will start to effect his approach and lessen his confidence.

150 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Skipping Hughes is one thing, but not being able to see that he was done after the fifth is the real problem. Not only did the Yankees skip him, but then Girardi rewards Hughes by leaving him in to give up 7 runs. Pretty pathetic.

151 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:49 pm

[147] As I seem to recall asking you once before, not so long ago ... why do you bother?

152 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:49 pm

Well, this has been fucking delightful. Cliff Lee, Cowboy Joe West, and Phil Hughes looking like dogshit right from the start.

I had low hopes for this game. Nice that Granderson can battle Lee the way he has while the rest of the lineup has gone down like lambs.

Not for nothing, but sometimes it is just amazing that Posada was ever a catcher. That at bat in the fourth, I think, was unforgivable. Which - for him - followed an absolutely terrific at bat where he worked a walk (which Al and Mikey missed completely, as they were too busy yakking about nothing) (that's added to the joy - as I've mentioned, I find it is absolute torture when Al is in the booth).

But Posada gets up there, our pitcher is obviously laboring, the first two guys go in order, Lee's pitch count is not bad at all, but also not insanely low, and Jorge swings at the first damn pitch - which isn't a good pitch - and lobs a feckless fly ball straight to the right fielder.

FUCK Posada. It's not like this hasn't been a team-wide shitty effort, but you just don't do that. Particularly if you're a fucking catcher.

153 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:49 pm

All we have to do is clone Swisher, and we'll be fine.

154 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Unfortunately, it's 7-2, not 4-2.

155 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Oh, Swish hasn't been no bitch, neither.

156 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:51 pm

9 Nick Swishers > 1 Cliff Lee

157 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:51 pm

[149] as long as I xan remember pitchers have been skipped or had their starts bumped up or back a day because of the schedule or a rain out or an injury. Rarerly if ever do I remember it causing permanent physical or psychological damage. Heck, Stengel used ro Jimmy with the rotation all the time and he's in the hall of fame. To worry that a pitcher has somehow been broken because he was skipped and then had an off start strikes me as a bit hysterical.

Now, on a strictly semantic level you are correct, we don't *know* for sure, and of course we never will.

158 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:52 pm

goddamn Fat Liar hits a 3-run job. fucking cocksucker.

baseball really sucks today

159 ms october   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:52 pm

ichiro is the coolest kid in mlb.

160 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:53 pm

[151] like I said before, I don't post as often as I used to. I just like to poke the hornets nest once and awhile door the fun of it.

161 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:53 pm

[157] Hughes velocity and command both were off today. He had his worst start against the worst offense in baseball. Is that all a coincidence. I don't think so. If I had to bet, I don't think the impact will be long term, but after seeing what happened with Joba, I am not so sure.

162 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:55 pm

Dusty Baker let his pitcher make the third out with a runner in scoring position. Then pulled said pitcher immediately afterward. Weird.

163 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:57 pm

[158] On that topic, how the HELL has Fat Liar gotten off the scrap heap?

That guy was so damn cooked, I really thought we could put a stake in him.

Must be better milkshakes.

164 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:57 pm

i smell double digits....for seattle.

165 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:58 pm

Hey, Boone. Use the Fucking piece of leather on your hand.

166 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:58 pm

This game is unpleasant.

167 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:58 pm

[163] fertility drugs?

168 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:58 pm

[162] Could you imagine William if this team actually had a horrifically horrible manager, like Baker. Hahahahaha.

Don't send paramedics, send the coroner.

169 thelarmis   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:58 pm

here comes the double digits. one swing...

170 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:59 pm

[167] Just David being Manny.

171 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:59 pm

[161] wondering if hughes is off his game because his routine was broken is one thing. Hand-wringing about whether he's now "screwed up" is a bit to dramatic. Moreover, I think that it is just as likely that tonight's start was a coincidence. Just like his absolute worst start came against the dreadful Orioles last year, and that was on regular rest.

As a wiser man than i once said, you really can't predict baseball.

172 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 8:59 pm

[168] Girardi just did something similar with Burnett. He's no Baker, but he isn't far off.

173 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:02 pm

I think Teix's year long funk is due to spending too much time thinking about Phil's innings limits and possibly needing to be skipped a few times.
; )

174 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:02 pm

[171] You can't predict it, but it's fun to try. Suggesting Hughes was screwed up really isn't that dramatic...concluding that it will for a significant period is. I am really not comfortable with giving away one game, but hopefully that's the extent.

175 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:05 pm

supposition time

176 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:07 pm

Actually, I just can't let that go.

Do you realize how unfathomably awful Baker is???

That guy is like Torre, but far more vigorous, and therefore able to do even more damage.

177 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:10 pm

Looks like everyone has packed it in for the night, but I just noticed that Al is way easier to listen to if I shred paper in the background.

178 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:13 pm

[176] Baker is pretty awful. He tends to give the worst hitter in the lineup the leadoff spot. Hates guys who "clog up the basepaths" with walks. And leaves his bench players on the bench for weeks at a time, meaning they're so rusty you can hardly pry them off the pine when you need them. I'll give Torre credit on that one: he at least knew you had to give the scrubs a few at-bats a week if you wanted them to be useful.

179 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:14 pm

I really hope the Yankees haven’t managed to screw up Hughes. This hasn’t been the best year for organizational decisions, so hopefully this isn’t another one that backfires.

Ah, I see, i obviously misunderstood your tone, diction and use of verb tense. When I read "managed to screw him up", using the present infinitive after the perfected tense, which seems to imply a progressive, ongoing or even perfected state of being, I thought you were wondering aloud if the damage done by a possible backfiring organization decision was long-lasting.

But really you were saying " I hope that the decision to skip him was not to blame for tonight's poor performance, even though it would be dramatic to conclude from one poor start that decision to skip Hughes once in the rotation has done lasting or permanent damage."

I'm sorry I didn't pick up on the intended effect of your post.

180 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:21 pm

Dear Brian Cashman,

I understand why you signed CHoP.

It wasn't a bad idea, I understand the reasoning behind it.

But part of the reasoning behind it is that it would be easy to let him go.

Well, that time has come.

He's been terrible.

And not only has he been terrible, but his velocity is down and his breaking stuff has hung all year.

Experiments are nice, but it's time to move on.


p.s. Please throw Boone Logan in a sack and drown him in the Hudson.


181 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:21 pm

[179] Semantics, shmemantics, ha.

182 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:22 pm

C;mon ... I wanna Stick Trick!!!

183 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:23 pm

[182] Well, Lee was nice enough to give Nick 2 crushable balls, but Nick didn't want 'em ...

184 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:24 pm

Wow, besides Swish and Granderson, the Yanks might as well have asked Cliff Lee if they can do anything else to make him more comfortable. Not exactly stout resistance tonight.

185 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:29 pm

[179] Can you translate that? To clairfy my tone, it was really more sarcasm than all that smart stuff you mentioned. Although I don't think Hughes entire season has been submarined, I do wonder how long it will take for him to get back on track and hope the Yankees ultimate plan for him is a little more informed than some of their recent decisions. I am not sure what the verb tense is most suitable for explaining those thoughts, so I'll leave that to your interpretation.

186 Raf   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:34 pm

[180] There has been a spike in Park's hit ratios, he’s striking out more batters and walking less than he did last year. FWIW, he’s given up less line drives (19% down from 24%), less ground balls (40% down from 44%), more fly balls (41% up from 33%). Should be noted that there hasn’t been a drop in his velocity in any of his pitches, though I would think that he should probably select his pitches a bit better.

187 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Holy crap. Can they do it again?

188 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Those three extra runs Girardi let Hughes give up really look big now.

189 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:36 pm

[186] Is that compared to his entire 2009, or just his time as a reliever?

190 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:37 pm


The plot thickens.

191 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:37 pm

Ya never, ever know.

192 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:40 pm

Why did those last two batters go down on three pitches or whatever it was?


193 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:41 pm

well that sucked

holy crap dd you just see the bomb Votto hit?!

194 Just Fair   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:42 pm

Lidge gave up a 2 out, 3 run bottom of the 9th homer to knot the game at 6. Joey Votto. Not that anyone gives a shit about the Reds-Phillies. : )

195 jjmerlock   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:43 pm

[192] Because Granderson had overperformed massively for a Granderson-Cliff Lee matchup and because the last batter was Chad Huffman.

At least the 9th was something different than bringing Cliff his pipe and slippers, but up until then, geez.

196 Raf   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:45 pm

[189] Entire 2009. As a starter, 3 of his 7 starts had a game score over 50.

197 randym77   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:47 pm

Game going to extras on that Votto homer. He's so underrated. I keep thinking his numbers are going to have to come back to earth, but they never do.

198 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:51 pm

[186] Gee. That almost makes him sound like he hasn't deserved the beatings he gotten. Still, something seems off to me, like there's something missing from the stats you chose.

Oh, wait, I know what it was.


2009: .54
2010: 2.35

He's given up more homeruns this year than last, in 1/4 of the innings.

When your flyball rate is up AND you're tater-tastic, that's a big bad problem.

199 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 29, 2010 9:58 pm

[198] Also, I would say his velocity certainly *is* down, when you compare it to his velocity as a *reliever* in 2009. The fact that he threw less hard as a starter last year shouldn't have any influence on how hard we should expect him to throw this year.

200 Raf   ~  Jun 29, 2010 10:10 pm

[199] I'm looking @ pitch data, from his bullpen stint in 09, his velocity's pretty consistent this year and last.

Show/Hide Comments 201-202
201 Raf   ~  Jun 29, 2010 10:20 pm

[200] Going between Brooks and Fangraphs for pitch data, this is taking much more effort than's warranted... Agree in [198] that his HR rate in 2009 was unsustainable.

202 monkeypants   ~  Jun 29, 2010 10:46 pm

Although I don’t think Hughes entire season has been submarined, I do wonder how long it will take for him to get back on track and hope the Yankees ultimate plan for him is a little more informed than some of their recent decisions.

You see, now you're getting it! What a much more clear, balanced and careful way of putting it .

I am not sure what the verb tense is most suitable for explaining those thoughts,

You're doing fine here, just keep practicing. ; )

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver