"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

I’m Rubber You’re Glue

Phil Hughes is on the mound tonight. The rubber game down in Texas.

Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Nick Swisher RF
Raul Ibanez LF
Eric Chavez DH
Russell Martin C

Let’s Go Yank-ees!

[Photo Credit: Dina C]

Categories:  1: Featured  Game Thread  Yankees

Share: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email %PRINT_TEXT


Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 3:51 pm

Does anybody know what's going on with Pineda? There's an article on the team website that says he's having a second opinion, but it doesn't say what the first opinion is after the MRI.

This is not sounding good. I want my Montero back.

2 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 3:53 pm

[1] Labrum tear

3 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:01 pm

So you have a labrum tear ...

4 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:12 pm

Fuck. Thanks. Well, I guess we really do need (not just want) Andy after all.

5 RIYank   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:25 pm

Oh, bad!
Hm, which kind is it? Diane's link lists three, but none of them seems to fit. The really bad one is an effect of a dislocation and seems like it would have been a really obvious injury. The second rarely requires surgery. The third is in the wrong place (superior, not anterior).
I guess maybe it's the second kind, frayed edges, which maybe would not typically require surgery but does for a pitcher.
Anyway we're talking three months at least, huh? More, probably.

6 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:34 pm

I hated that gd trade the second I heard about it. Mainly because I did not know too much about Pineda. Now I hate it even more. Ugh.

7 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:37 pm


It not a SLAP tear. Its noticeable, but not to the point of an "open" incision surgery. Still, you won't see him on a mound till May 2013.

8 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:44 pm

[5] Was he damaged goods from Seattle? Would a "trade physical" detect this type of injury when there is no stress on the joint?

A lesson for the ages, when you deny Jesus, bad things happen.

9 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 4:57 pm

[7] Wow.

10 RIYank   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:18 pm

Whoa! May 2013.
[7] Translate, please.

11 ms october   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:20 pm

is the mets doctor the best they can find?
i recall him being questioned a bit in previous years.

12 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:24 pm

LoHud, Chad Jennings now has the summary of the Cashman conf call. Labral surgery. Out 12 months, exactly as Diane said. Yanks "confident" Ms knew nothing about any shoulder problem.

13 Chyll Will   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:31 pm

[8] At this point, both Cashman and Mariner Jack are saying no, he wasn't (Cash even defended the Mariners, saying neither they nor the Yanks knew of any injuries). But of course no one is going to outright admit at first glance that they knowingly traded for or knowingly traded damaged goods. It's not fair to speculate either, but Pineda wasn't in tip-top shape when he came to camp; time will tell if the Yanks got hosed or hosed themselves. Just wait til next year...

I still appreciate the trade, even if I don't like it. They were trading for potential (which they still have on their side with Campos), which (like Papa Sterling often says about baseball) is unpredictable. The hope is that the Yanks discovered a potentially career-ending trend and intercepted Pineda from reaching that point so he can go back to being dominant. But their pitching is deeper than most folks will admit, so 2012 without Pineda will not be a disaster; they weren't totally relying on him to begin with (I suppose you have to give credit to Joe for not pressing him as the No. 2 throughout spring and setting up for disaster, who knew?).

14 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:40 pm

[13] Yeah, it's hard for me to say the trade is/was a disaster. The bottom line is this, the DH spot was needed because of the number of aging players on the Yankees. It serves as a 1/2 day off for Jeter, ARod, Teixera, gets people like Chavez, Ibanez, and Nunez in the lineup.

Montero was only going to impact that strategy. The trade was made because it was a chance to make the Yankees future rotation younger, but also to give Girardi much needed flexibility and allow Montero to flourish elsewhere.

It's weird, I'm not a big Cashman fan...but I understand the rational of these decisions. It's easy to criticize and say, HOW DIDN'T YOU KNOW!?!?! Sometimes you just don't know.

Let's go Yankees!!

15 mhoward120   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:41 pm

So we traded our very best young player for a sack of shit? WTF?!?!?!

16 Simone   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:47 pm

Sucky news. Hopefully, Pineda comes back healthy and pitching well.

Thank goodness for Andy's return. With any luck, he is solid when he gets back.

17 Chyll Will   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:51 pm

[16] Quality starts, that's all I'm asking for. The offense as presently constructed can take care of the rest. We need quality starts!

18 Alex Belth   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:52 pm

Dag, a major loss and serious bummer. I was so excited to watch the kid pitch. Hey yo Phil Hughes: this is your life, dude. Time to show and prove. The Yanks need you.

19 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:52 pm

[15] Yeah, a 23 yr old, talented, SP sack of shit.
Is that the most intelligent comment you can make?

[14] Well put, and I agree. It pained me to see Jesus go, but young, talented pitching is the hardest commodity to find, and unless something happens to ARod, the DH role is filled for a while. I even read last year, that scouts though Jesus couldn't handle a COF spot... so the guy appears to be all bat.

The Montero situation was a 'don't wanna do it but gotta do it' situation.

20 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:53 pm


You there Andy..............?

21 Start Spreading the News   ~  Apr 25, 2012 5:56 pm

Not wanting to crucify the guy who traded Jesus, but is this a good time to point out that Ian Kennedy won 21 games last year and is 3-0 this year?

22 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:00 pm

[21] It's true... but you tell me... how many people HERE... and on other Yankee Blogs, thought that IPK was a stud at the time he was traded? Again, the Yanks play to Win every year, and simply don't have/take the time to develop Pitching the was other teams can.

23 Start Spreading the News   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:12 pm

I think pretty everyone thought IPK could be good but was the worst of the three prospects: Hughes and Joba were deemed better.

I thought he would get by on wiles, but IPK is actually striking people out these days as well. I guess it helps to be in that division. I doubt that ERA would stay at 3.0 if he were in AL East -- or that's how I console myself.

24 randym77   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:14 pm

Terrible news. I know medicine has improved some, but I can't help remembering this article by Will Carroll.

...If pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they'd be destroyed. Of the 36 major-league hurlers diagnosed with labrum tears in the last five years, only midlevel reliever Rocky Biddle has returned to his previous level. Think about that when your favorite pitcher comes down with labrum trouble: He has a 3 percent chance of becoming Rocky Biddle. More likely, he'll turn into Mike Harkey, Robert Person, or Jim Parque, pitchers who lost stamina and velocity—and a major-league career—when their labrums began to fray.

25 Alex Belth   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:29 pm

20) Great point about Andy. And I agree about IPK. Not sure he was destined to pitch well in the AL East. Sure, he wasn't given too much of a chance but there is no telling if he would have turned out so well had he stayed in New York.

26 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:36 pm

This would be a really bad day for Phil Hughes to continue his bullshit

27 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:38 pm

[13] That's very rational of you.

I have to admit, my first reaction to today's news was thinking this might really be a fire-able offense on Cashman's part.

It feels like he's on the cusp of making too many mistakes to forgive. This one, for the forseeable future, is a doozy. Cashman, argh.

28 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:38 pm

[26] That pretty well expresses how ornery I'm feeling this evening, Yankees-wise.

29 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:40 pm

[24] They've been spinning it by saying there was no damage to the rotator cuff, so therefore he should be fine in a year from now. At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

30 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:43 pm

[26] Yup. It's down to Phil or Freddy going to the pen, not both of them.

31 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:44 pm

[30] I've given up on Phil Hughes being a competent pitcher for the New York Yankees.

I just want him to not suck tonight. Is that too much to ask?

32 monkeypants   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:47 pm

[22] et al. Well, I was not happy with trading Kennedy, though Grandy has proven to be better than expected. Still, it is not OUR job as fans to evaluate these trades or make these predictions, even though that is what fans will do. Rather, it IS the job of the GM to make these predictions. Now, no GM will get every trade right, but Cashman has shown a spectacular ability to misevaluate starting pitching.

[14] The Yankees recently started Nuñez at DH, is currently carrying 13 pitchers, and has Stewart as the backup C. Moreover, Ibañez was signed well after the Montero trade. I cannot believe there was no room on this roster for Montero to get his ABs, and that would have been the case especially had Ibañez not been signed (a signing that would have been unnecessary had Montero been tagged as more or less primary DH).

This trade is not yet a disaster, because we don't know how well Montero will do. But I will predict now, as I predicted back when it went down, that the Yankees will regret it.

33 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:50 pm

[32] Lets be fair to Cashman.

He's a poor evaluator of relief pitching too. Remember the Kyle Farnsworth Era (Error?)

34 Alex Belth   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Then again, David Robertson is pretty good.

35 monkeypants   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:54 pm

[31] So have I. Unfortunately he has been the product of the NY Yankees crack young pitcher development protocol.

36 Start Spreading the News   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:56 pm

[33] But the Yanks have at least developed good young relief pitching under Cashman. They haven't developed any starting pitching.

37 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:56 pm

If it's any consolation, Montero is being used primarily as a DH so far in Seattle. And he's not tearing it up. And Campos will be more than sufficient compensation for Montero if he hit his potential. That's all despite [24] having me ready to slit my wrists.

38 ms october   ~  Apr 25, 2012 6:59 pm

What I find especially frustrating is after all yankees' focus on starting pitching the last few years the yanks have gotten a some very good but high priced seaons out of cc and turned kennedy into granderson and basically nothing else. Hughes and joba have been stifled in essence because they have not developed nor were traded when they were at their peak. AJ goes without saying; I don't think Wang was handled well; still very early for Kuroda but not sure how he will handle the al. Nova has been a bright spot but the yanks don't seem that enthralled by him. And it doesn't seem the young arms in aaa are ready.

39 monkeypants   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:00 pm

[37] Consolation? He's started 4 games at C, or more than Stewart has for the Yankees. That means he could easily be doing the job of both Stewart and Ibañez. Yeah, he's not tearing it up, this is true. Let's see in a few months how Ibanez+Stewart compare to Montero.

40 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:01 pm

Don't forget - the Yankees also deemed Montero tradeable because they're so high on Gary Sanchez. Sanchez is at least a couple years away, though.

41 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:07 pm

[36] What about Nova?

42 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:07 pm

It's Feldman. From across the hall. Now that that's out of the way.
Go Yankees!

43 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:08 pm

Captain Amazing

44 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:10 pm

[32] How many at-bats, for the entire year, do you think Girardi could have allotted for Montero? You can even take into account that Ibanez was never signed.

45 Chris in Sydney   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:12 pm

[39] No, the fact that he's started 4 games so far at C for the Ms does not mean he could be doing the job of both Stewart and Ibanez. He might be a better outfielder than Ibanez (or not), but he is nowhere near Stewart's level behind the plate. Same for Coltrane. Despite that, I have no doubt that Montero's offensive numbers will be better than them this year.

46 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:12 pm

[44] That's a good point. For reasons unknown, he thinks Cervelli is a good defensive catcher, so I'm sure he'd be more inclined to start Cervelli twice a week than give Montero time behind the plate.

And we'd also have to rest everyone and get frigging Nunez plenty of time, so Montero might be a part time player at best

47 seamus   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:13 pm

let's go yankees!

48 monkeypants   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:14 pm

[44] well, Ibanez has 47 PAs so far, Stewart has 11. So let's say Montero could have gotten 50 PAs in the first 17 games, or around 440 PAs for the season. Knock a few off and you are still looking at 400 PAs.

49 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:14 pm

[42] Nice.

50 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:15 pm

Even steals.

51 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:16 pm

This is probably a good time to point out that we have struck out twice in the first inning against Scott Feldman.

52 monkeypants   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:16 pm

[46] Yes, I forgot about that. Resting and Cervelli and Nuñez are all very important.

53 ms october   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:16 pm

Damn how did the ump miss that.

54 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:19 pm

I can not believe Cashman works in a vacuum. While he makes the final verdict, my guess is there were many hours of discussion on the Montero trade. Remember, it was originally for Felix, but the M's would have none of that.

I can't say the Pineda having a small tear is misevaluating him. The guy looks like a young CC.

But shit happens.
You can't hold anyone 'responsible' for it.

55 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:21 pm

[48] So barring any major injuries to the regulars (ARod, Teixera, or Jeter), who are most likely to occupy the DH spot, then you're saying that Montero will be good for about 100 - 110 games. That gives you about 52 - 62 games to rest those 3 regulars and work-in Nunez, Jones, and Chavez. I just don't think that's enough at-bats to spread around. Plus, if he's such a good hitter, then why would you ever want to get him out of your lineup? I just don't see how it would have worked, from a strategic standpoint.

56 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:21 pm

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good night. That's right, Phil. Get ahead and stay ahead.

57 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:24 pm

I was hoping that since they found that missing 3-4 mph on Hughes' fastball this spring, they'd also find an ability to put away a hitter with 2 strikes. I'm not giving up yet.

58 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Finally Mark.

59 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:30 pm

Ohferfuck's sake!

60 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:31 pm

Gotta give props to Mr. Yayo there.

61 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:31 pm

Teix looked Safe to me...

62 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:31 pm

You can't tell me Joe Girardi's hit and runs aren't designed to fail.

63 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:33 pm

There's the ol' Phil. Missing his target by nearly a foot. Cripes!

64 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:35 pm

[55] Not to mention that ARod may be our full-time DH by 2015.

I love having ARod, but the Yanks bet given enough time (like 10 years), ARod would pass Bonds. I don't think that's happening, and alas, ARod will henpeck our lineup for years to come. Jesus is a casualty of ARod's contract.

65 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:38 pm

[64] "Jesus is a casualty of ARod's contract."

Exactly! Thank Crazy Uncle Hank.

BTW, that sounds like ARod nailed Jesus to the cross.

66 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:42 pm

[64] My big issue is that Joe Girardi was willing to make Francisco Cervelli, an absolute wretch of a defensive catcher, the STARTER in 2010, but Jesus Montero just doesn't cut the mustard as a catcher. How the hell much worse than Cervelli can Montero really be?

Its almost like the decision was made that because Cervell isn't all that good a hitter, he *must* be good defensively, with no regard to reality, and once you have that reputation, its damned near impossible to shake.

Basically, if you can start Cervelli and Posada, Montero could have been the catcher of the future if you wanted

67 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:43 pm

Captain! He's the only one who realizes that fucking Feldman is on the mound.

68 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:44 pm

[66] All ex-catcher managers have irrational affection for "defensive" catchers. Girardi, Scioscia, Bochy..they just can't help it.

[65] Centaur > Jesus?

69 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:46 pm

[68] I understand that. But he's created a defensive catcher where one does not exist.

70 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:46 pm

[68] Don't leave out Torre! He gave us at least an extra 1/2 year of Girardi before Posada took over and banished MVP Candidate Mike Stanley for him.

71 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:49 pm

[70] Forgot Joe T! Nothing ever will beat Scioscia and Jeff Mathis though..he wouldn't have been acceptable to start even in the light-hitting 70s.

Man, Derek is hot and A-Rod is...not.

72 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:49 pm

[64] There are a lot of casualties of Arod's contract. To think he came begging when no team would tender, yet Uncle Hank still gave him 10 years. I never did and never will understand it.

But that's old news. How about that youngin Derek Jeter? I hang my head in shame that I called him Captain Groundout the two years previous.

And can I say it again...why wasn't Colon kept around this year. He looked better than Freddy during the season until the playoffs, and was able to get through a lot of innings. All for $2M.

73 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:50 pm

[71] Except against the Yankees in the 2009 ALCS, where Jeff morphed into Babe Mathis.

74 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:52 pm

The Jeff Mathis thing was so strange that even rooting against them you couldn't help but feel bad

75 Simone   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Derek is crazy hot! He is hitting every freaking thing. We need at least two more players to get that hot.

76 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:53 pm

[73] I'd be willing to bet that four of Mathis' ten career hits are against the Yankees.

We always get beat by bad hitters.

77 Matt Blankman   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:55 pm

[76] In the '09 ALCS, Mathis was 7 for 12 with 5 doubles. He's never hit more than 12 doubles in a season.

78 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:58 pm

[72] "I never did and never will understand it."

It was to give ARod enough time to break Bonds record.
Mantle averaged 20 HRs/yr his last 2 years.
A shell of his former self, but still got him to 536 HRs.
The 10 years for ARod is for ONE reason only.
For History.

79 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 7:58 pm

This is a hard luck rally for Hughes. Oppo field bloop double, and a weak grounder on a good pitch scores the run.

80 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:01 pm

[78] Too bad he kept a little secret that will always diminish the achievement. And if they signed Arod for 5 years, where would he have gone after that?

81 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:01 pm

Losing Pineda is like having an ice cream cone and and watching the ice cream fall on the floor before you've had a lick.

And you really wanted cake anyway.

82 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:01 pm


83 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:03 pm

Phucking Phil Hughes

84 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:03 pm


85 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:04 pm

Does Phil know there are 2 outs???????

86 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Just cut him.

I'm fucking sick of it.

87 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Another stellar performance.

88 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Phil is in the BP as soon as Andy is back.

89 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:08 pm

Can Phil bat 8th?

90 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:10 pm

[88] CUT HIM.

I have no interest in seeing him as a generic right handed reliever 5th on the depth chart.

91 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:10 pm

Who's available from the traveling road show?

92 mhoward120   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:10 pm

2 outs, 0-2 count , and then boom- it's just gotta be something mental for Hughes.

93 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:13 pm

Ugly. Very ugly. Very, very fucking ugly.
Why the torn labrum is baseball's most fearsome injury.

"But because it's positioned between two bones, a damaged labrum is far more difficult to detect than other shoulder problems, like a torn rotator cuff. Doctors are only now getting the diagnostic tools to detect labrum tears, so it's impossible to say how many great hurlers of the past suffered the injury. Even today it's tough to tell which pitchers have labrum trouble."

94 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:13 pm

[92] Because he MUST throw that waste pitch a foot high and two feet outside.

I have no idea why.

95 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:14 pm

Just another Mark Teixeira infield single.

96 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:15 pm

Phil Hughes 74 major league starts under his belt not including tonight.

74 starts – 4.96 ERA – 5.1 innings per start – 2.1 K/BB rate. 1.378 whip.

97 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:18 pm

[96] No longer upset or dissapointed. He's just not that good.

98 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:18 pm

I thought that ball hit by Ibanez was a routine fly to left.

99 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:19 pm

Hey, a run. Is that the Score Truck I hear?

100 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Phil Hughes had success when he throws a lot of gas. He's done it like three times, in his debut, in the pen in 2009, and for a few weeks in 2010. He just doesn't have enough of anything else to get it done.

Show/Hide Comments 101-147
101 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:23 pm

Big wind in Arlington. Every fly to left is an adventure at the moment.

102 Dimelo   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:23 pm

[97] Phil Hughes should be the heir apparent to break Kei Igawa's SWB record for the most wins.

103 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:24 pm

Small package delivery

104 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:24 pm

It feels like I can hear the sound of Yankees fans sharpening their pitchforks. This has been an awful lot of bad in a very short span of time.

105 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:26 pm

Let's go Phelps. You seem to miss more bats that Phil.

106 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:26 pm

[100] What on earth happened to his curveball? Where did it go and why did it disappear?

107 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:26 pm

So Cashman has officially failed the off season.

We should also remember that he essentially took a pass on Darvish who was the best young pitcher available, and he would not have cost us Montero.

108 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:27 pm

I hate Mike Napoli. Fuck!

109 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:28 pm

I much prefer the late 1990s Rangers.

110 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:29 pm

Ok, not going to Gameday anymore. That place is diseased for me. Every time I go, something else bad happens.

Is this it for Phil as a starter? I thought he'd get a few turns, but - for someone not watching - is it significant that Girardi had seen enough this early?

111 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:30 pm

And Colon, of course.

112 seamus   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:31 pm

[107] Hard to fault Cashman over an unanticipated injury. I liked our rotation coming in. I had no idea Phil would be this bad though. Actually I worried he might but hoped he wouldn't. Andy is sorely needed.

113 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:33 pm

[107] Many are laying that at the feet of Hal.

Whoever dumped out the gunpowder, I'm starting to get very concerned that Cashman, Hal, Hank, whoever - the specifics are one thing, but those are just specifics - our organization is not being run well, anymore. They should have learned from George that it's the product, stupid - with a great team on the field, suddenly the Boss was a ok with the Bronx.

114 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:35 pm

Let's all take a step back and look at how spectacularly fucked the Yankees are for the foreseeable future.

By 2014, must fill the following: 3 starting pitchers (that's counting on Ivan Nova, god help me), 2 OF, 2B, C, DH and/or 3B.

All while reducing payroll.

If I'm a Stein, I gotta say this Pineda news deep sixes the austerity budget. If there is a free agent pitcher who can throw it over 59 feet next year, the Yanks are buying. If it's Hamels (it won't be) he might break a billion.

115 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:39 pm

[114] What are people supposed to be missing with Nova?

I am starting to not grok the skepticism. For the life of me, I could not figure out why the f' he was not number 2 coming out of the gate, and thought that nothing else made any sense.

Nova has won and won and pitched well, and he doesn't look a thing like Aaron Small to me.

What's not to like about Nova? Is there something that I'm missing here?

116 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:39 pm

[112] Can't fault him for the injury, but you can fault him for misjudging the value of Colon and Garcia and the potential of Darvish (I know it's early yet, but it doesn't look good right now)

117 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:53 pm

[115] He's won a lot, but I don't think he's that good. About the only thing he's got going for him is that he keeps the ball in the park. But I like him and he could improve or continue to get insane run support or whatever. There are many, many other things to worry about before getting to Nova.

118 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:55 pm

To make this sting even worse, Montero is catching Felix tonight. Jesus is 3 for 5. But someone will have to explain how the M's are winning 9-1 if every single pitch ended up at the back stop?

119 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:56 pm

[115] Couldn't agree more. Nova has done nothing but win. When will he get the respect his record and mound presence deserves?

120 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:56 pm

[114] Dang it, I demand some answers ([106], [113]) and I'm going to hold my breath until I get some! A Rod looks like death at the plate (they cut in for that spectacularly weak effort), it seems like we're watching a train blow by us right here, and I'm mad as heck! Throw me a freaking bone, here.

121 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:57 pm

[116] Dice-K's early returns looked good, but has Boston gotten full value? I do think the way Japanese pitchers are developed may be a hindrance to MLB. That may disappear in the future.

122 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:58 pm

[115] Nova is the real deal. He can throw at least 3 different pitches that for consistent strikes. I think that's why Hughes has been sub-optimal, to be kind. He has no fastball command and can't get strikes with the curveball without hanging it. Plus he's got onions. “If you ask me, ‘Who’s the best pitcher in the world?’” Ivan Nova said, “I say, ‘Me.’ You know, you have to believe it. That’s why you win so many games.” -nydailynews That cracks me up. Go Ivan!

123 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 8:59 pm

Ah, and as I post [120], [117] appears. Nothing's in sync tonight. So that's the only thing you think he has going for him? He seems to manage the innings he pitches pretty well to my eye, he throws hard, his stuff looks good to me - I take it you're telling me his peripherals say that's all deceiving?

I'll have to take a look at them. Because everything else has me feeling so cheery tonight.

124 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:01 pm

Ugh. Should have stuck with game 7. Another homer.

125 rbj   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:02 pm

[122] And Nova was broken into the bigs the right way, without screwed up special rules.

126 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:03 pm

Nova allows an ass-ton of base runners and doesn't strike anybody out. He's like Wang, but a little less good and a little more whiffy. I like the guy, but even last year when he won all those games, he put 220 men on base in only 165 innings.

127 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:05 pm

[123] I like Nova and expect him to stick around for awhile, but yeah, basically if there are runners on all the time, eventually it will catch up to him.

128 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:06 pm

[127] Or he'll improve.

129 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:09 pm

[121] That could be true, but I believe (or have read) there were also some personal conditioning issues with Matsuzaka.

Darvish is a big boy. MLB size. And he looks fit. I suppose the question is how long will his arm last.

Whatever happens with him this year, it's going to be exciting, and I just wish we didn't have to watch it happen in fucking Texas.

130 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:10 pm

Well this game officially sucks. Back to work.

131 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:19 pm

[126] He's 25. Has an array of pitches. Throws strikes and makes the other team swing the bat. He's the one guy on the staff who gets to the 5th inning without throwing 90+ pitches. A few years ago every time he reached the 4th or 5th inning his wheels would come off. He learned to go deeper into games, got sent to AAA, and came back and started winning again. He's learning on the fly and winning at the same time. What can I say? I like Nova. : ) I think he'll keep getting better.

132 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:24 pm

[131] Right now he's the best young pitcher we have. And the only one who seems to have made a normal progression to success. Gradually getting better each year.

133 mhoward120   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:24 pm

At least the Bruins just lost in OT

134 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm

Bruins lose!!!

Night just got much better.

Hatred is a small warming flame, but a flame, nonetheless.

135 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm

Greg Maddux pitched 115 innings in his second season. He walked 75 guys and a whip of 1.6 He was only 21 but he's the first guy I thought of looking up at BR.
Nova has 226 big league innings under his belt. Just sayin'.

136 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:27 pm

[133] on the same wavelength on that one.

137 Ara Just Fair   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:28 pm

Thanks, Phil. For allowing me to watch the Bruins lose live in overtime. Your lone contribution to the night.

138 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:28 pm

There is no doubt Darvish is going to be very good at least. However, 6/$107 ($18m AAV) ain't cheap. Yes, half of it is tax deductable. He may turn out to be worth it... he might not.

Dice-K has posted a 9.6 WAR in 5 years, at close to $90m. This year doesn't look too good so far. He will end up being a terrific bust. Is Yu better? Much better, me thinks.

However, how can you bash Cashman over Pavano and now Pineda, yet insist Yu is worth the money.... especially considering our farm and future budget?

Again, there is a LOT of crap shoot to this.

139 mhoward120   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:29 pm

Somehow I'm ever happier that the Bruins got beat by a brother named Joel Ward - wonder if his nickname is Yussel?

140 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:34 pm

It won't last but:
Albert Pujols is hitting .232/.284/.333. He's homerless through 17 games and 69 at-bats.

$250m... signed to age 41.
It ain't as bad as the Crawford contract, but it could be bad.

141 Boatzilla   ~  Apr 25, 2012 9:37 pm

[138] I think it's partly about what makes it so much fun to be a Yankee fan. The idea that money is no object.

It pretty much has always been that way, even though in recent years there has been more talk about budget.

So I don't expect us to be over bid by the Texas fucking Rangers ferchissake.

Then it goes back to they didn't really want him or rate him that high. And as you said, it's a crap shoot.

142 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 10:03 pm

Well, just beat Detroit

143 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 25, 2012 10:09 pm

So, is Hughes done?

144 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 25, 2012 10:14 pm

[143] When did he start?

145 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 25, 2012 10:16 pm

[143] Ha! Well, he did win those 18 games.

146 Chyll Will   ~  Apr 25, 2012 11:03 pm

Still too early to fret. Getting early returns on Darvish doesn't guarantee a thing to me; it's a long season and he still might wear out in the Texas heat, plus once the whole league gets a good look at him he might not be so great the next time around.

It's a tremendous leap of faith at that kind of dough when the league is gunning for your assets so they can "maintain a competitive balance" (read: keep badly run and/or nearly insolvent teams from contraction) and you have to both add youth and lower payroll, all the while satiating the populace who you conditioned to expect a World Series every season.

I have a thought: how many championships can we actually attribute to George's overwhelming influence and decision-making, versus the baseball people he hired (particularly when he was away from the team and/or obviously hands-off)? I say George peaked early in his ownership during the 70's and proceeded to wreck havoc after that until he was banished, then after witnessing the magic that happened in his absence peak and then wear off in the late 90's-early 2000's, he went back to being the bull in a china shop until he became sick and could no longer run the team in any official capacity. We have a tendancy to give the man too much credit for the team's success on the field; he was a businessman first and enlarged the Yankees as a brand, but his evaluation of baseball talent is way overblown. Throwing the most money at the best player on the market doesn't mean you know talent any better than the average fan, and it doesn't even guarantee that you're getting the best advice in return. George was a legend in the business of baseball and did much to bring financial prosperity to the team and even the league, but he was never a baseball god from my point of view.

Mo on the other hand...

147 jjmerlock   ~  Apr 26, 2012 1:21 am

[146] I don't know. For one, you obviously don't want to say that any "wear off" took place in "the late 90's-early 2000's." You want to shift that a little, as, 1998, 1999, 2000...

I don't think anyone questions that the Yankees benefited tremendously from the period when good baseball people (not the people inside GMS' head) were allowed to do what they did so well. It was an ideal mix - skilled baseball people, still backed by a deep wallet, but in this case, a wallet forced to remain at arm's length.

So while I think the later version, post "the return" was not a match for that ideal, I still think we were looking at a relatively positive equilibrium. You had big-spending George, pride dictating he would never be outspent George, but slightly chastened George, able to exist at least within a push pull relationship with a General Manager who was more on his game than not (Cashman), or, at least, was still in a phase where his pitching signing disasters were fatal only in the second season, or were counterbalanced by a few good pitching signings that had been made on the cheaper.

Cashman obviously had trouble working with GMS from time to time, but that there was a tension, at all, in that mutually held rope suggests to me that this was not pre-banishment George.

I think the concern right now is that we may have an owner with an equal inclination to be meddlesome, but one who will not commit bottomless resources to the team, one who does not tie pride to not being outspent, but instead ties pride to some sort of fiscal sanity, which he may turn out to be not all that good at. Through it all, one hopes Hal has not lost sight of the reality that a lousy product, or even a product that is clearly and "unbridgeably" separated from a higher tier of teams (read: this means teams they don't really even have a shot at in the playoffs) is probably fatal to the Yankee financial equation.

And all of this may be pinging back and forth off of a General Manager who doesn't currently have his eye on the ball, or after surviving GMS, has lost the will to care all that much about going through the roundabout squabble wars.

This may sound alarmist and may be alarmist, but I am slightly alarmed.

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver