"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Larger Than They Are

It’s Fab Five Freddy Garcia and a whole lot of sweaty palms for Yankee fans tonight.

Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Nick Swisher 1B
Robinson Cano DH
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Raul Ibanez LF
Jayson Nix 2B
Chris Dickerson RF
Chris Stewart C

They are still in first place, though.

Never mind the Pepto: Let’s Go Yank-ees!

Categories:  1: Featured  Game Thread  Yankees

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 Jon DeRosa   ~  Sep 4, 2012 4:04 pm

We need a Jacob Ruppert special one of these days (where the Yanks score eight in the first innning and then slowly pull away).

2 Greg G   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:35 pm

Bring Reggie out of retirement. He could bat cleanup instead of Martin or Pearce. "There aint enough mustard to cover that hot dog." We need a hot dog.

3 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:43 pm

Its probably not a good thing when I look at the clock and say "aw, hell, its time for the game."

4 Bruce Markusen   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:48 pm

I see that Ichiro has been benched. Hopefully they can get a lead and use him as a late-inning defensive replacement.

5 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:49 pm

On their current road trip, the non-Pedroia Red Sox are batting .197 and slugging about .235.

Aceves has thrown 143 pitches in the last five days.

Exciting young call-up Jose Iglesias is 0-16.

This has been your Southern New England Red Sox Update.

6 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:50 pm

[4] Of course, this means more Ibanez in the OF. Remember when the Yankees moved heaven and earth to sign a LH DH who could "play a little OF"?

7 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:55 pm

I suppose Cano is really hurt....or a little hurt...or somewhat hurt...? Otherwise there is no reason to have Jason Nix in the line up, unless Girardi is trying to lose the division again.

8 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 5:57 pm

[7] He felt his hip tighten when he tried for that grounder late yesterday. Took BP, said he felt okay hitting.

9 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:00 pm

Also, I liked this from Chad Jennings:

It’s likely that Eduardo Nunez will only play shortstop if he’s used in the field.

When I read it I first thought, "Yes, I think it's a fairly safe bet that he will not play shortstop unless he's used in the field."
Then I realized what Chad meant.

10 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:04 pm

Times like this I really appreciate Captain Cool, what an awesome interview just now. "Who's panicking?"

11 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:08 pm

An interesting note on Riveraveblues:

Mark Teixeira (calf) has been jogging but has yet to really push it and run sprints. He’s still not ready for that, making a Thursday return to the lineup unlikely at the moment. Unsurprisingly, Teixeira hopes to be back no later than the weekend.

So, if Teix gets his wish--his hope--and returns on Friday, he will have been out of action for 11 days. If he can't make the weekend series, his next game will be on Tuesday, September 12, meaning he will have missed 15 days.

Hm. Why was he not put on the DL?

12 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:10 pm

"Why was he not put on the DL?"

Because Brian Cashman's crystal ball was broken?

13 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:14 pm

[12] What crystal ball did he need? The first reports said minimum one week, probably two weeks. Don't the Yankees brass talk to doctors? This seems to happen every year---they play cutesy with an injured player, playing with a short roster while trying to save a couple of days of DL time.

Come to think of it, maybe Cashman's crystal ball was broken, because that may very well be how they make these decisions.

14 Ara Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:18 pm

That's mighty helpful. 2-0.

15 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:19 pm

Robbie's feeling better.

16 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:19 pm


17 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:20 pm

[13] If it had been one week, then I think it would have been foolish to put him on the DL. You'd lose several days of Teixeira in the line-up in exchange for a few days of a call-up player. That would be a mistake.

18 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:21 pm

[17] Correct.

19 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:22 pm

17] OK, but the point is that only the most wishful thinker believed he was only going to miss a week. The early consensus, as far as I can tell, was that 10 days was more realistic. The timetable for his recovery is just. so. predictable. They do this every season.

20 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:23 pm

Well, that explains why Cano is IN the line-up. Word's still out on Nix.

21 newbs   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:24 pm

[17] Especially with the Sept. 1 callups essentially negating the 25-man roster limitations.

22 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:26 pm

In 65 innings, he's [Aroldis Chapman] struck out 115 often helpless batters, a strikeout rate of 15.9 per nine innings. That is currently the third-highest all time for a minimum of 50 innings

23 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:26 pm

[19] Same reasoning for 10 days.

Obviously, if they knew it would be 14 days then the DL would have been smart.

[21] Exactly. That's why the cost to the team of not putting him on the DL was limited to a few days of a call-up. I think it was four days.

24 Ara Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:27 pm

I don't like watching sloppy Garcia pitch. Not for one second.

25 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:27 pm

[21] So, they should have played short for four or five games rather than use a call-up, so they could hold out until September 1 when they could use...a call-up, all in the hope that maybe, just maybe, they could save a game or three of Teixeira around September 7?

And predictably, he won't be back anyway before he would have had he been placed on the DL. Excellent.

26 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:27 pm

[20] see [8].

27 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:27 pm

And Freddy begins to cough it up.

28 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:27 pm

Leads don't last very long these days.
In both running and reaction time, ARod looks VERY slow.

29 mhoward120   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:28 pm

Wonder if Joe's gonna start playing righty-lefty-righty matchups soon?

30 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:29 pm

I hope A-Rod didn't feel his "hip pull."

31 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:29 pm

[23] I disagree...it's not worth playing short for four days to save four days of DL time later, especially because with September call-ups, the team would (theoretically) be better able to live without Teixeira at the later point.

32 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:29 pm

Gawd, Fred.

33 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:30 pm

[25] Yes, exactly. But does "maybe, just maybe" mean "probably", or "a very small chance", or what? You think it was "predictable" that he won't be back before the 15 days, so, okay. I'm glad your crystal ball is still working!

34 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:31 pm

[32] Yeah, I just don't see how that could be true. The upgrade of Teixeira over whoever replaces him has to be much greater than the value of one extra bench player. If we're talking about, say, five games of one vs. five games of the other.

35 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:32 pm

Nice, Fred.

36 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:33 pm

Wow! Gotta be impressed with Freddie there.

37 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:34 pm


38 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:34 pm

Leads don't last very long these days.

Maybe you typed too soon?

39 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:35 pm

[35] It's OK to take satisfaction if the Sox finish in LastPlace... right?

40 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:39 pm

Name that Manager:
"Still, through his at times inexplicable lineups, awful bullpen management, and seemingly constant conflicts with players (often through the media), he has become the face of this farce of a [XXXXX] team. The face of our discontent. He has proven our worst fears correct, and has been entirely detestable in the process between his antics in the media, willingness to throw players under the bus, and that loathsome smile he plasters across his face"

It's always the managers fault.

41 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:39 pm

[39] Yes, you have my permission.

Did you listen to 98.5 this afternoon, by any chance? I think RSN now hates absolutely everybody except Pedroia, and some of them are not too fond of Pedroia. It's just a question of who's the biggest villain.

42 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:43 pm

Take advantage here.

43 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:46 pm

Nice work by Dickerson....wasted

44 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:47 pm

[40] Who wrote that? I'm so torn about Bobby V...I can see all that being true and yet it's still the players who lose ball games.

Then again, Bobby has burned every bridge he's ever crossed..things didn't end well here either with the Chiba Lotte Marines, ever after he led them to a long awaited championship..

45 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:48 pm

Honestly, I was rooting for a BB for Stewart.

46 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:49 pm

[44] I basically agree. I'd put it this way: the fact that he's really irritating and that I wish he'd go away doesn't mean he's responsible for the Sox Suckage.

47 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:50 pm

Peña's numbers are not much better than Russel Martin's.

48 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:51 pm

Freddy owns Pena

49 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:53 pm

[44] Well, let's not even get info how fucked-up Japanese owners are with players and managers. There's no comparison in the USA, at least not since the Boss and Al Davis died.

50 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:53 pm

[49] Should have been "let's not get into."

51 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:59 pm

Now score him.

52 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 6:59 pm

Man, Ben Zoebrist's wife is a babe and half. (Watching the Tampa feed)

53 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:04 pm

[52] You're missing out on some crucial information. Michael Kay explained what "WHIP" stands for.

54 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:06 pm

Now Lou predicts that the 2-2 pitch to Swish will be a change-up. It's a 2-seam fastball, but Lou and Kenny agree that it was a change.

55 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:07 pm


56 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:08 pm


57 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:08 pm

[52] :>))

58 Ara Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:17 pm

Can't anyone hold a fucking lead for fuck's sake!

59 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:18 pm


60 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:18 pm

Fucking walk.
Goddam fucking walk.

61 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:18 pm

I've seen this movie before.

62 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:19 pm

Two-out walk.

63 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:26 pm

Alex smacked it, at least.

65 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:35 pm

Poor Girardi is losing it.

66 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:39 pm

Jesus, Fred almost did it again.

67 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:45 pm

I hate to be the one to point it out, but the Orioles are dominating the Jays tonight.

68 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:46 pm

[65] More of a "light a fire under these lackidasical SOBs"
Gotta try anything at this point.

69 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:56 pm

So do the Rays have both Cy Cobb and Ty Young?

70 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:56 pm

This game started off so well, too.

We'll need two aboard for Rob's next homer.

71 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:58 pm

Ugh. Those objects in the mirror are looking very large.

72 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:59 pm

Fucking Five Inning Freddy

73 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 7:59 pm

I repeat, the only good about the Yankees losing the division and completing a humiliating, epic collapse, is they HAVE TO FIRE JOE GIRARDI, right?

74 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:00 pm

[72] He really is, huh? Better face the fact.

75 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:00 pm

73) it's not Girardi's fault if his pitchers can't pitch, and his hitters can't hit, yes?

76 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:03 pm

[75] Manager can't manage.

He's poured gasoline all over the flames for weeks now.

It doesn't matter anymore anyway, because the team sucks, but he rarely even gives them a chance.

77 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:03 pm

Oh great, 6-0 Orioles.

78 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:05 pm

Make that 7-0.

79 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:05 pm

I thought Girardi managed the DP extremely well.

80 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:06 pm

76) I don't think he's that bad, but fire him, fire all of them for all I care. No manager could make this team win, the way theyve been playing

81 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:06 pm

And on the other bright side, tickets will be easier to get next year.

82 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:08 pm

I hear Bobby Valentine might be available.

83 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:10 pm

Swish better go back to high pants.

84 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:11 pm

[80] I just don't see anything he's good at. His alleged "strength" bullpen management, has completely blown up, as it often does when you make constant, pointless pitching changes.

85 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:11 pm

And the Yankees roll over.


86 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:11 pm

[82] Yeah! Would be great to have him come aboard and win the division with ease! More likely he would insult Jeter in traniing camp, then make Mo & Soriano co-closers, pick a fight with Joel Sherman then compare Cashman to Steve Phillips.

This team just kind of sucks right now..can't get too angry about it. Old, old&weak bench, bad starting pitching..just not very good.

87 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:11 pm

[73] So, I take it the deathwatch has officially begun?

88 Boatzilla   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:13 pm

I'm done. They will not will this game. No chance.

89 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:13 pm

[84] I think you sell him way short. Don't forget the deft way he manipulates the DH position to maximize resting.

90 Ara Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:14 pm

Freddy, Phil, and Phelps. That's not a formula for any winning streaks. And the whole lineup is slumping ffs. Bollocks!

91 rbj   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:15 pm

[82] That's not funny! Don't give anyone ideas like that.

92 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:18 pm

Oh my fucking God, it's like he's managing GirardiBall from beyond the grave. Or manager's office, as it were.

93 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:19 pm

84) yeah but pitching changes are tricky business. A manager can easily look like a genius, or a fool depending on the results. I'll admit Joe gets in his own way sometimes, as many managers do. I put most of the blame on the players, and the people who construct the team.
It's not too late for them to get their shit together, but they're playing like a team that does not belong in the playoffs. They're pitching and hitting like shit. Girardi is one of the last people I blame in this situation.

94 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:20 pm

[86] Are Cashman and Phillips all that different any more? Five years ago I would have said yes, but that was before obnoxious, loud mouth philandering Brian Cashman emerged.

95 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:20 pm

[93] I actually agree with you, more or less, but who usually takes the blame when a team shits the bed?

96 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:21 pm

8-0 Orioles.

97 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:24 pm

[95] Yes.
That's why I don't really argue about whether a manager sucks. I suspect, deep down, that they almost all suck.

98 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:24 pm

95) the manager, but I think giirardi acquits himself with his consistency, and intensity. It's obvious he doesn't approve of the results he's getting, but what can he, or any of us do but get annoyed?

99 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:27 pm

The Orioles are simply pasting the Jays tonight.

100 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:32 pm

[98] I doubt many managers approve of losing a big lead. Probably 90% of a managerial firing is because the front office feels they have to "do something." But it is fair to ask if the manager could be improved upon. Girardi may be consistent and intense, but has he even in a small way contributed to this meltdown? I'm not sure myself, though he does seem to be a little off his game this year. So what I'm saying is (a) it would be unsurprising if Girardi takes the fall for this mess, but (b) that may not be entirely unwarranted.

Show/Hide Comments 101-192
101 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:34 pm

[96] They still stink according to Keith Law..one reason I remain so sleptical of many of the new stats guys. Earlier this year all the Fangraphs rankings had the Phillies and Red Sox as so highly ranked, O's way down there..well, look at the standings now.

102 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:35 pm

This is tough to watch.

103 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:36 pm

Was that six, seven pitches??? Fuck this fucking gutless piece of shit team. Fuck them to hell.

I've got more important things to do with my life than watch these turds circle the bowl.

I'm sorry to be that crass, but these guys fucking suck. Their approach sucks, and they suck. Fuck them.

104 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:36 pm

Does anyone really think this team will score three runs in two innings?

Do you think they'll get a hit?

105 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:37 pm

Jesus Christ, who the hell is Justin Thomas?

106 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:37 pm

[101] I guess I'd be more sympathetic to your skepticism if you had predicted that the Orioles would be in first place in September. But, since nobody on earth predicted that, it's not clear to me that "new stats guys" should bear much blame for not predicting it.

107 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:37 pm

[104] I think they'll get a hit.

108 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:37 pm

They're just rolling over like bitches, too. Two teams that want to take their lunch money and the Yanks have asked them if they could get them a fucking soda while they're at it. Disgusting.

109 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:38 pm

[101] The O's do seem to defy explanation. They are playing way above their pythagorean win expectancy. Some of that is because they were wayyyy outscored in JUne and July and yet played only one game worse than .500 over that stretch.

110 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:39 pm

[106] Of, of course. The O's are a surprise. But everyone could see the Phillies and Red Sox were horrible earlier in the year..yet many rankings still had them as "good" teams. Way, way off.

I don't know what to make of the Orioles now..but it doesn't matter. Yanks may not make the postseason at this point. If Andy P and Pineda each made 25+ starts..would it have been different?

111 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:39 pm

[109] Of course, tonight's 12-0 lambasting of the Jays will help the ol' pythagorean record.

112 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:40 pm

You know what might be interesting? After intentionally throwing the division in 2010 and creating the stupid wild card, the Yankees crap their way into that stupid game.

That would be poetic justice.

113 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:41 pm

[107] I don't.

They may walk.

114 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:41 pm

[110] If Andy P and Pineda each made 25+ starts..would it have been different?

Probably, but would the Yankees have signed Pettitte had Pineda not gotten hurt? Also, isn't pinning their hopes on a 40 y.o. pitcher, retired more than a year, with a history of arm troubles, part of the problem here?

115 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:41 pm

100) I just don't see them shitcanning Joe after a year like this. I would be surprised if they let him go. Could he do a better job, or is there a guy available who could do better? The answers are somewhere between maybe and probably? I wouldn't take any comfort or relief in Joe's firing if they were to bring back the same team, because I wouldnt expect much more than similar results

116 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:46 pm


Probably, but would the Yankees have signed Pettitte had Pineda not gotten hurt?

I don't think so.

Also, isn't pinning their hopes on a 40 y.o. pitcher, retired more than a year, with a history of arm troubles, part of the problem here?

Well, no, because his injury had nothing to do with his age. I mean, it's not an ideal thing to do, but that's not what caused the Yankees to lose one of their best pitchers...

117 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:46 pm

[115] I actually mentioned this last night.

I really, really, really hate Joe's managerial style. I don't enjoy watching the games when he gets into these six relievers in three inning pitching-changeapaloozas. Its fucking boring. Pitching changes and intentional walks are boring. If we're not going to win playing this boring baseball, I want him gone so I don't see it anymore.

118 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:46 pm

[110] You predicted that the Phillies would suck?

119 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:47 pm

Let's look on the bright side of things.
At least now, every day, we don't have to worry about blowing 1st place anymore.

And Girardi really sucks.
HE ONLY HAS 4 HITS THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

120 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:48 pm

[118] Actually, I did. Not suck *this* bad, but I didn't think they'd be a first place team.

121 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:48 pm


122 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:49 pm

There's the hit.

123 Sliced Bread   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:49 pm

115) you hate his style, of managing, that's a legitimate reason for wanting him gone, I can't argue with that.

124 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:49 pm

[118] No no, I meant about halfway through the season. Everyone was predicting a rebound from the Phils & Sox for reasons I never saw.

[119] Isn't it possible that both the team AND Girardi need to improve? And I agree with Mattpat11, multiple pitching changes are dreadfully boring..

125 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:50 pm

Oh shit. Jeter is limping.

126 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:51 pm

Look. I don't think they're gonna come back. I'm sure most of you don't.

But it *could* happen. Why is Joba up?

127 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:51 pm


128 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:52 pm

[116] Well, no, because his injury had nothing to do with his age.

I disagree. I mean, yes, this particular injury was not age related. But my larger point stands: despite all of the supposed pitching depth the organization built up over the last how many years, they were basically forced---or at least felt compelled---to sign a retired 40 y.o. pitcher to round out the staff. The strategy itself is inherently problematic.

Sure, he was one of their best pitcher for the few (nine I think) starts he made, but if the line drive didn't get him, another injury almost certainly would have. If losing a 40 y.o. recently retired pitcher cripples your staff, the problems run much deeper.

129 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:52 pm


130 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:54 pm

[118] You really never saw the reasons??
The Red Sox had hugely outscored their opponents. Their offense was really, really good. That's the reason.

131 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:54 pm

This fucking team.

132 The Hawk   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:56 pm

Anyone else catch Pinella's exhortation, "COME on Granderson!"? That was funny

133 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:56 pm

[128] Look, obviously you don't have a strategy of relying on a 40 year old pitcher. The strategy was to trade for a really good pitcher. But then he got hurt. And he wasn't 40 -- he's young.

Shit happens.

134 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:57 pm

I told you all this team was headed straight out of any playoff spot.

I can't stand watching them anymore. It's a waste of time and it's debilitating.

I can't watch Granderson strikeout for the 18 millionth time.

Why did I think they were headed out of the playoffs. Because I think these gutless shitbags are not only gutless, and not only shitbags, but I don't think they're as good as the other teams that are going to bump them out. But they've been extra feeble.

135 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:57 pm

In case it even needed to be asked, when this team loses the division, it will be the first time this franchise has ever blown such a lead.

136 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:57 pm

[130] Havn't the Orioles shown that run prevention is not "always" an indication of talent or future performance? The Sox pitching was TERRIBLE, even with their run differential. I believe at the time they had given up the most runs in the league..

137 randym77   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:57 pm

Hard to believe the Yankees had a 10-game lead in mid-July.

138 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:57 pm


139 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:59 pm

[136] Huh? Run prevention isn't always an indication of future performance? I don't follow you.

Nothing is always an indication of anything else. This is a key fact! Don't forget it!

140 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:59 pm

[112] They're not making it into any spot. They're going to save us all the time and clean out their fucking lockers early.

141 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 8:59 pm

The funniest thing about Cervelli is that he has a a very specific skill set. He's not a bad hitter for a BUC.

He can't play the position *at all*

So we put him in for defense.

Yankees in a nutshell.

142 cult of basebaal   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:01 pm

You know what the best part of being down to my 3rd computer (and possibly having 2 *DEAD* machines on my hands) is???

I can't watch Yankees games anymore ...

143 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:01 pm

I was in a perfectly good mood before I decided to see how these shitbags were doing. Yankee Baseball, ruining every weekend and every weeknight.

144 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:02 pm

Statictics are NOT Predictive.
Nor are they ment to be.
They simply state mathimatical probability.

Also, pre season predictions do NOT know about injuries.
And injuries, as we know, play a BIG role in how teams do.

All Casinos run on betting with probability.
They play a what.... maybe 5% advantage?
Yet they make zillions.
That is because over the long run, probability is very accuarate.

But of course, Casinos don't have to deal with injuries, crazy moves by FOs, and AAA studs being promoted.

And Mattpat... Even William, who has absolutely no love for Girardi, does not blames him for this season, and doesn't want him fired. When William stands up for Girardi, that is basically akin to Word of God.

145 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:02 pm

[142] You have no idea.

146 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:04 pm

[133] Yeah, and then when Pineda went down they went immediately to Pettitte (with whom, according to reports at the time, the Yankees had had discussions since December...so there *does* appear to have been some longterm strategy in place), because the were not willing to go to any other pitcher in the organization---an organization that has been stockpiling arms for the last several years.

Yeah, shit happens. And when it does, the Yankees sign a 40 y.o. retired pitcher. It's what they do.

147 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:05 pm

With the big roster, we really could have Fred pitch four innings, then fill in three innings with URPs. Why not? Then the same with Phelps. (Not sure what to do about Phil.)

148 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:05 pm

[117] The only thing I don't think is fair about your switching pitchers thing is THAT ALL THESE GUYS SUCK.

There are two guys in the bullpen who don't suck.

Everyone else is garbage. Its not like there's anyone who's shown anything to be trusted to ride a full inning or full inning plus. He's just rearranging deck chairs. The lineup is full of guys who suck and the bullpen is full of guys who suck.

The starters aren't great either.

149 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:05 pm

I think I'll have to do what I did last time the Yankees were clearly gonna miss the playoffs. Individual milestones.

Jeter is 16 hits away from Willie.

150 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:06 pm

[145] Hm, I honestly don't think Betances & Co. would have worked out as well as Pettitte actually did. You do think so?

I thought it was a reasonable Plan B, myself. I didn't expect it to work out as well as it actually did, but it seemed reasonable.

151 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:07 pm

I said ten freaking days. It's going to be less than ten days. Pathetic.

152 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:08 pm

Two hits in two innings. Its almost like a rally.

153 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:09 pm

[151] My crystal ball is working.

154 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:10 pm

I think Jeter was telling him how much he loves his haircut.

155 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:13 pm

[149] I have no idea how it would have worked out. But I was pretty certain Pettitte would be a disaster. Now, on the one hand, he pitcher really well and really made me eat my words. On the other hand, he got hurt---albeit to a freakish injury, but nonetheless an injury of some sort is unsurprising---and has basically been a non-factor for the season. So in a way, it turned out about as I envisioned.

I just see this otherwise reasonable plan B as another example of the Yankees unwillingness or inability to actually develop young pitchers.

156 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:15 pm

[154] Inability. I think they're *trying.* They just really, really suck at it.

157 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:16 pm

[154] Hm. That doesn't seem to me like an outcome that showed you were right. It's like predicting that Sabathia will win a game for the Yankees and then he pinch hits and knocks in the winning run, and you say "See?"

Yes, 40 year old pitchers are more apt to get hurt. But they are not more apt to get their shins cracked by line drives. So when Pettitte got his shin cracked by a line drive, that did not really bear out your prediction.

158 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:18 pm

Okay, move over, make room for the Orioles.

159 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:18 pm

Thanks for fucking ignoring me too, tonight. Much appreciated.

Well, I'm taking two weeks off, anyway. This team took a month off, so why not.

I'll look up in two weeks, and they'll be wherever the heck they are. May go to one of the games against the Orioles. Otherwise, it's a drag on my life.

160 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:19 pm

[157] I really dislike every single manager in the AL East.

Well, maybe not Farrell in Toronto.

161 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:20 pm

[156] My prediction was that the Yankees would get little or nothing out of Pettitte. The freak injury at best renders my prediction untestable, because we'll never know how thing would have turned out if he managed to last more than a couple of months. He *seemed* to be much better than anticipated, but for all we know, he might have crapped out or his arm might have fallen off.

162 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:20 pm

[158] Hey, dude, chill out. Ignoring you was a favor.

See you in two weeks.

163 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:21 pm

[159] Yeah, Farrell seems pretty benign. I've grown to like the Jays announcers, FWIW.

164 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:21 pm

[160] They got 1.4 WAR out of him. So I think your prediction was definitely falsified.

165 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:21 pm

[161] I'll see you then. Season may be over in a big way by then.

166 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:22 pm

Although I'd like an answer from mattpat if there isn't a certain defense of Girardi in pointing out how bad every guy in the bullpen sucks who isn't named Robertson or Soriano. It's just choosing how to die.

167 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:23 pm

[159] I guess I do too.
But, unfortunately, I have to admit that Maddon is an exception to my All Managers Suck principle. I don't like him or his style, but I do believe he's a significantly better field manager than average.

And I think almost every manager with that Good Field Manager reputation is a charlatan, by the way.

168 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:23 pm

Btw, Alex, not an ounce of sweat tonight. This was as predictable as tomorrow following today. You really thought they had a chance tonight?

169 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:23 pm

[165] Rapada has been good, actually. Oh, wait, maybe his name is Robertson...

Nope, it's not.

170 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:25 pm

From a RAB Poster:
In the last 11 games, this is what the Yankees are hitting AS A TEAM:
.203/.272/.338, 3.09 R/G
Over this same stretch, the Yankees pitching put up the following line:
98 IP 90 H 28 BB 85 K, 3.77 ERA 1.20 WHIP

Normally, this team would play .600+ ball with a 3.77 ERA.
We all know it. Our offense has simply disappeared.
The above offense numbers may not even be replacement level.

171 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:25 pm

[165] So why do we need to bring them all in to every game?

172 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:25 pm

[166] I think Maddon is good at positioning. Outside of that I think he benefits from having much better, younger, faster, multidimensional players than most other teams. And having a starting staff and a bullpen that is so much better than what the Yanks have, it's freaking sad.

173 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:26 pm

[170] Confuse them with a variety of crap?

I think it's pretty arguable that if you have anyone worth a damn in the bullpen, it's a lot easier to use them for full innings.

Girardi didn't do all that mixing and matching when he had Hughes blowing people away out of the pen.

174 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:27 pm

[169] I'm sure the OPS is below replacement level. I think the runs/game are about replacement level.
That does surprise me, because their pitching has seemed worse than that. Maybe I'm biased by the more recent failures.

175 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:27 pm

[168] He may have been better than I expected him to be. I don't have any sort of confidence in him in a big spot, whatsoever.

176 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:29 pm

[174] No, I mean, he's been a good relief pitcher. I wasn't actually speaking about you, your expectation, or your confidence!

177 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:30 pm

Well, I'll see you all in a bit.

If Clay Rapada is the guy you're looking to in hopes of bumping the number of reliable relievers in the pen up to 3, I think it's not likely that you're a playoff team.

178 cult of basebaal   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:31 pm

I suppose this might be just me, but I like Joe Maddon.

A lot.

Everytime I hear him interviewed, I'm impressed with what he's willing to actually say, without resorting to the standard-issue-bullshit that most managers spew.

Given his willingness to experiment tactically on top of that?

I'd much rather have him than Girardi ...

179 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:32 pm

[172] Someone needs to watch those 09 playoffs again. There was the infamous game where he used seven relievers to pitch 4.1 innings.

[173] I think for the most part, the pitching has been just bad enough and/or giving up a crucial run late.

180 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:35 pm

[175} Really? Look at his game logs. I think he's been effective in 8 out of his last 16 appearances. That's fucking outstanding!

181 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:35 pm

[177] I like him too, overall.

182 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:36 pm

[177] I can see that. He's got a bit of Bobby V smugness to him though.

JoeyJoeJoe - uptight, fussy and tinker-y with the pen
Bobby V - egotistical and possibly a bit unbalanced (unpublished stories from this side of the water)
Buck - humorless Niedermeyer
Farrell - by-the-book "baseball man".

Davey Johnson seems like a great manager..wonder what Nats fans complain about him though.

183 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:36 pm

[178] I know your line is that they won despite of him, but I'm having a hard time looking back on anything in 2009 in any way but fondly.

184 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:39 pm

[179] I'm sorry, I think he was effective in 9 of the last 16, actually.

Alright, I'm watching the convention.

185 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:42 pm

[182] Actually, my line is after that disaster game, he calmed way the fuck down and for the most part just let the team play, except for using Marte to get Howard.

186 cult of basebaal   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:44 pm

[181] I honestly can say that from I've seen of them both on that particular point, Valentine and Maddon seem complete, 180 degree opposites.

Maddon never strikes me as self-centered and ego-possessed, just as a king-hell, over-sized, overgrown-baseball-dork.

187 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:46 pm

[185] Maddon has some smarminess, but he's still pretty likeable.

Bobby is an asshole.

188 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:48 pm

[186] I'll always give respect though as coming over here and winning whiel putting up with Japanese ownership..really impressive.

189 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2012 9:51 pm

[181] I always liked Showalter, too. Yeah, he's humorless, but I think he's a pretty god manager.

190 cult of basebaal   ~  Sep 4, 2012 10:01 pm

Before last year, I liked what I knew about Valentine from a distance. I didn't really remember him from his Mets' days, and like [187] says, I respected what he did in Japan.

But ... he was a bag of dicks on ESPN broadcasts last year and that completely soured me on him. Frankly, his behavior up in Boston hasn;t been much different, or surprising ...

191 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 10:25 pm

[184] I was always a bigger believer in Marte than most folks here, so I didn't get as upset when he was brought in. I had said all season that he had the potential to be a lefty arm we needed, if he could get right.

Of course, I've also liked Boone more than most until this season. I kind of gave up on him early on, and haven't liked him much since.

192 jjmerlock   ~  Sep 4, 2012 10:30 pm

[175] And further, it's not just "these are three people I've had in my kitchen" with Rapada. He's been ok, at best, this year, he's been terrible pretty much every season before this one, and he's 31/32. Meaning, pretty much word for word "he's been a bit better than I expected, but I have every reason not to be confident in him in any given situation."

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver