"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Keep The Line Moving

The Yankees have scored 47 runs over their last five games. That works out to 9.4 runs per game. They’ve scored a minimum of eight runs in four of those five contests, all of which have come against the top two teams in the Wild Card race. That’s what 28-year-old righty Dustin Nippert has to contend with this afternoon.

Nippert has made just seven previous starts this year. Just one of them was a quality start. This is just his fifth start in regular rotation. In the previous four the Rangers have gone 1-3 despite Nippert’s average 4.50 ERA and strong strikeout rate.

Nippert goes up against A.J. Burnett, who is coming off his miserable outing in Boston. In August, Burnett has sandwiched three quality starts between two total stinkers in which he’s given up 16 runs in 9 2/3 innings.

Jose Molina catches Burnett this afternoon, but not because of the head-butting A.J. and Jorge Posada were doing in Boston. Molina was scheduled to catch today’s day-game-after-night-game regardless of the pitcher, and the foul ball Posada took off his left ring finger last night cinched it. The rest of the lineup is the usual suspects, with Johnny Damon returning to left field.

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Game Thread

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:12 pm

is aj trying to make some kind of point? molina lets him throw strikes?

2 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:14 pm

Good AJ is fun to watch.

Let's hope he's here for the duration of the game ...

3 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:15 pm

That was good.
Where is everybody (else)? Working, I guess.

4 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:17 pm

Nice day for a game. Fo sho.

5 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:19 pm

Five batters, one ball in play so far this game.

6 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:20 pm

would rather be uptown at the game, but perfect day for a slow day at the office

7 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:22 pm

Our team is good.

8 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:27 pm

Hopefully A.J. gets strikes 6 inches off the plate to lefties, too. Geez.

9 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:27 pm

[3] I'm actually at home today. Tummy-ache from too much junk food at the ballpark last night. Worst part was that the Mudhens wound up getting rained out.

10 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:28 pm

[9] Dang. Well, enjoy this one, anyway.

It looks like we might get Nippert out of the game early, huh? A grueling inning for Dustin.

11 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:28 pm

[8] you gotta get to 3 balls to get those calls

12 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:31 pm

Rangers' long relief: yum.

13 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:31 pm

Robbie...........oh ROBBIE. Howz about a hit.

14 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:32 pm

[12] Or the number 1 reason I hope Texas catches Anahiem!

15 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:33 pm

damn, that aerial shot showing the dirtpatch that used to be Yankee Stadium was depressing.

16 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:33 pm

[14] Also the #1 reason they won't, though.

17 ms october   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:34 pm

[3] that's one thing i miss about acedmic life

[14] hopefully feliz will have rules in the playoffs

18 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Dang, Robbie. Well struck though.

19 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:35 pm

ohh, nice slice by Cano. Coulda shoulda busted it open there.

20 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Argh, so close to 3 rbi!

Okay, well, 36 pitches for the Nipster. Plus, good AJ (judging by the evidence so far). Good omen, mediocre results so far.

21 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:38 pm

Eleven batters in this game so far. Three balls hit in play.

Maybe this is a True Outcomes game?

22 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

[8] got it

23 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:41 pm

that first pitch looked like a screwball. where was the 2nd?

24 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:41 pm

[23] The second was on the outside edge, yeah.

So, movable strike zone today.

25 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:43 pm

Good job AJ. Just don't pitch in Fenway.

Woo hoo, reimbursement check for my DC trip just came. Off to the bank.

Sure would hate to miss the Yankees score 10 runs here. And by "Sure would hate to miss" I mean I wouldn't mind missing it at all.

26 tocho   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:44 pm

[24] the strike zone depends entirely on the count. if its 1-0, the pitch is a ball, BUT if its 3-1, the same pitch is a strike.

not that hard to understand.

27 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:48 pm

whoa, Melk pipping Gardner with the steal!

28 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 1:58 pm

no big deal right now but this umpire really sucks

29 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:16 pm

Juuuuuuuuuust a little outside......

30 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:16 pm

Juuuuuuuuust a bit outside ...

31 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:17 pm

[8] Like I said. : D

32 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:17 pm


33 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:20 pm

Oh well.

34 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:22 pm

[33] It's Singleton's fault. He mentioned Michael Kay.

35 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:25 pm

True Outcomes game.

36 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:25 pm


C'mon AJ.

37 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:25 pm

what the fuck no appeal?

38 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:26 pm

Oh, no. MY FAULT [35]!

39 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:26 pm


40 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:26 pm


41 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:26 pm

dang, AJ

42 51cq24   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:27 pm

didn't cruz clearly swing at the 3-2 pitch?

43 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:27 pm

That's a text book implosion...so predictable, you wonder how it could happen.

44 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:28 pm

[43] If there was a league leader in first comment of the day only after something shitty happens.........
: )

45 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:29 pm

Well, sure, now.

46 ms october   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:29 pm

[43] especially with molina behind the plate

47 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:31 pm

[44] My level of commenting doesn't have to be justified to you, but I am pretty sure anyone with time to waste would wind your assessment to be way off base

48 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:32 pm

I'm back. Um, didn't want to see the Yankees behind.

Lead off walk, o.k.

49 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:33 pm

[46] Without seeing the pitches, it doesn't seem like anyone did anything wrong, but when ever a pitcher is cruising, it always seems like a first pitch fastball after a walk or error leads to a bomb.

50 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:33 pm

What's up with Yankee starters and two-outs these days? Seems like every time a run scores, there's two outs.

This calls for a comeback!

51 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:33 pm

YES does a fine job, but I think we've seen enough of that blimp

52 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:33 pm

[48] Perfect through 3 2/3. Then BB, BB, HR, and a K to finish.

53 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:33 pm

[47] someone's testy...is it because Selena Roberts still walks the streets of this nation gone mad?

54 ms october   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:36 pm

i'm only half following on gameday - but the one thing i do know is it is not acceptable to lose to someone named dustin nippert - comeback time boys

55 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:37 pm

[47] Not looking for justification. I was making an observation in jest. No offense.

56 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:38 pm

For a manager who likes to bunt at the worst times, it's pretty curious that Jose Molina only has one sac all season.

57 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:39 pm

[54] Well, if Damon walks we might actually lose to a different pitcher...

58 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:39 pm

[55] Observations in jest are usually meant to be offensive.

59 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:40 pm

[50] And, it usually starts with a two out walk. I think this staff definitely needs to stop nibbling and be more aggressive with the bases empty, especially with two outs.

60 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:41 pm

Looks like we need Teix to get on to get rid of Nippert here.

61 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:41 pm

7 walks in 3.2 innings should translate into more than 1 run.

62 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:41 pm

[59] I do think AJ was thinking too much about the Ks.

63 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:42 pm

[62] Could be...looks like there were a lot of curves late in the count to the two batters who walked.

64 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:43 pm

Bet this is Nippert's last batter no matter what.

65 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:43 pm

[61] Guys who with good stuff who walk a lot (like AJ) can be tough to hit because you really never know what's coming and where it will be, which leads to a lot of weak swings.

66 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:44 pm

atta boy, Johnny

67 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:44 pm

Bye bye Dustin?

68 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:45 pm

Is ARod hurting? All his hits seem like weak bloops the other way. Thoughts? YEAH TEX!

69 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:45 pm

Great announcing there by Singleton ... pointing out that Davis was forced to hold Damon after Jeter's steal.


70 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:45 pm

[67] Yes indeed. And Ms. Oct. may now rest easy: we will not lose to anybody named "Dustin Nippert".

71 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:46 pm

[68] He was hitting line drives all over the park in Fenway. He could have easily had 3 or 4 HRs over the weekend.

72 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:47 pm

[69] I guess the ball went through the hole? That's pretty interesting...a legitimate reason to try and steal 3B with 2 outs.

73 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:49 pm

[65] I was thinking about Dustin. Not sure he's that good of a pitcher.

74 ms october   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:49 pm

[69] singleton and cone are just excellent - sorry i am missing them today - they are both very observant about baseball things

[70] yes, feeling much better - time to beat grilli

75 cult of basebaal   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:49 pm

[72] well, with a LHB up, at least.

It likely manufactured the run there.

76 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:50 pm

[73] Nippert has always been billed as having "good stuff", but his command is poor.

77 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:50 pm

[73] I'm pretty happy to be into the Texas bullpen. Nippert wasn't especially good, but Grilli is considerably worse.
Though I'll miss all those walks we were getting.

78 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:51 pm

Totally off topic:
It's terrible to lose the last of the Kennedy boys.
Truly the end of an era and leaves me feeling a little empty.

79 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:54 pm

[78] if you get a chance go on charlierose.com and check out last night's episode. An appreciation of Teddy with Jon Meacham, Al Hunt, and Doris Kearns-Goodwin...it was excellent.

80 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:54 pm

This is probably the best-pitched 3 ER game I've ever seen.

81 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:56 pm

[80] Yeah. That 1 3 0 line looks bizarre.

82 The Hawk   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:57 pm

[78] It's an interesting generational divide (I assume that's what it is) ... I respect the sentiment but I don't really "get it".

83 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:57 pm

[78] No comment out of respect for the recently departed.

84 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:57 pm

I mean 3 1 0. You know what I meant. : )

85 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:58 pm

[83] Hey, a self-defeating comment! Nicely played.

86 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 2:58 pm

Sheesh, and we complain about Yankee pitchers not being able to throw strikes . . .

Not that I'm complaining here!

87 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:00 pm

[85] Fair enough...not really a no comment, but lacking specifics out of respect for the recently departed.

88 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:01 pm

[86] You reverse-jinxed Grilli. Four straight strikes since you wrote that!

89 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:01 pm

I hope Feliz is not available today.

90 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:01 pm

[82] well I'm about as far away from a Ronald Reagan fan as it gets, but I definitely understood the outpouring after he died. I think its kinda the same thing.

91 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:04 pm

[90] Reagan had a life outside of politics and also appealed to people from both parties. Kennedy has been a political animal his whole life and hasn't been particularly popular outside liberal circles. Reagan was also a president, which is a very rare and special distinction. I think alot of the outpouring is more for the Kennedy name than for the Senator himself, at least outside of the beltway.

92 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:09 pm

[91] Having been a Massachusetts resident the last 10 years, I can tell you that the outpouring here is about the Senator himself, and not his last name.

I cannot speak for the outpouring in the rest of the country.

[88] Bah. I don't believe in jinxes. Jason Grilli is still Jason Grilli. The balls will come.

93 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:10 pm

[92] Sure, I would expect that for a life-time Senator within his homestate. Of course, his position as a life-time Senator probably did have something to do with his last name.

94 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:11 pm

[92] Come on. This is a family site. heh-heh.

95 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:12 pm

2 H, 3 R, 1 HR, 2 BB, 11 K - and if he gets a "loss" there are "baseball analysts" who will use his won-loss record as a way of showing AJ's "value" (or lack thereof). Its nuts.

96 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:12 pm

[92] Oh, but the jinx works even if you don't believe in it.
Nice try, though.

97 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:12 pm

Will history repeat itself?

98 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:13 pm

Kinsler will be looking curve...what will AJ throw?

99 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:13 pm

[91] He had a life outside of politics, but it's his political career that defined him. Its the core of why he matters in a wide scope, I don't think there would've been a week of public mourning for "The Errol Flynn of the B-Movies."

He absolutely warrants special treatment because of his 8 years as President, but one can certainly make the argument that Kennedy's 47 year national career had more lasting impact. I'm not saying that, but you COULD make the argument.

Reagan's supposed appeal to "both parties" is defined largely through the "Reagan Democrats," Kennedy counted Orrin Hatch, Lindsey Graham, and Trent Lott (and others) among his closest friends and allies...so I think their appeal to the opposite side of the aisle was comparable.

100 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:15 pm

Oh, good hustle, Ian!

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:15 pm

[93] You might be surprised by the number of people in Mass. who despise that name - yet voted for the guy anyway, because they like what he did for them.

In any case, I see AJ is trying to get his Ks by starting everyone out with a 3-0 count just to show how impressive he is. I'm not sure whether I'm glad I can't see this game right now, or ticked.

102 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:15 pm

really AJ??

103 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:17 pm

[99] Good luck making that argument...

I also don't get the comparison between Reagan appealing to a wide range of the electorate and Kennedy being a good friend to men with whom he worked closely for 20 years. One appeal is ideological and the other is personal.

104 ms october   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:18 pm

[98] gameday said 4 straight curveballs to kinsler

105 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:18 pm

With Melky struggling, Molina in the lineup creates a mini black hole.

106 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:18 pm

Why I don't get is the Camelot nonsense and trying to make the Kennedys "America's royalty." We fought a war to get away from royalty and shouldn't want to create a class of nobility here.

I sure would hate for a good AJ outing to be spoiled by one bad pitch.

107 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:19 pm

[101] I wouldn't be surprised at all. When a Senator accumulates power he has the ability to bring home the pork. Chuck Schumer is that way in NY as was the man he replaced, Al D'Amato (who was called Senator Pothole).

108 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:20 pm

[106] Again, I don't think that's a sentiment felt in the country as much as it is one felt among the Washington elite.

109 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:21 pm

I wish Molina had made two outs so that Jeter could have led off next inning.

110 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:22 pm

Okay, never mind that. Good job, Jose, making only one out.

111 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:22 pm

The no look 3-1. Crap.

112 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:23 pm

Dang, I'd like to have one of those Yankee Snoopy dolls.

Er, for my dog that is.

113 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:25 pm

[103] I don't think its an impossible argument to make, for better or worse 47 years is 47 years.

114 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:26 pm

From afar, I always wondered how AJ had such an inflated ERA. Starts like this one and the last are the reason. His performance always seems to trail his stuff.

Really don't like Coke here.

115 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:27 pm

You'd think this would be the perfect time for Hughes, no? Two innings in 1 run game. Phil Hughes is the most wasted resource in baseball.

116 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:27 pm

A-Rod should have taken that one.

117 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm


118 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm

ah, shit, Coke.

119 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm

[114] You nailed it.

120 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm

and we're off to the races

121 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm

Rome burns, while Hughes fiddles.

Another stellar ballgame for Joe Girardi. Two losses in this series and both very easy to pin right on his chest.

122 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:28 pm

For some reason I'm not getting upset about this game. It's such a curiosity. (Also the big division lead, I guess.)

123 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:29 pm

[122] It could be down to 5 after tonight.

124 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:30 pm

[115] PeteAbe said Hughes has what, 8 innings pitching in all of August? That's just insanity.

[114] Or ERA is not a good indicator of ability?

125 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:31 pm

[124] Yes, 8 innings.
They, uh, would like to keep him fresh, for... September.

126 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:32 pm

[124] ERA may not be a good indicator of ability, but it is a very good indicator of performance. Other factors definitely play into it, but ultimately, ERA defines a performance. Neyer is way too quick ascribe things to luck. Of course, luck is often the residue of design.

127 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:33 pm

It's amazing how every Yankee loss features an idiotic decision by Joe Girardi. I need to start a blog to keep track.

128 Shaun P.   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:35 pm

[125] Its one thing where Torre frags Proctor's arm by throwing him for 100+ innings in a year, when the last time Proctor had started regularly (and threw that many innings) was four years prior.

This ridiculous baby-glove treatment of Hughes is mad. At this rate, he'll finish the year with 80 IP. What happens next year when he starts?

129 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:36 pm

[128] Maybe they plan to give him 50 relief innings in September, to compensate.

130 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:42 pm

sweet ! blown dp! rallytime!

131 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:42 pm

No rally-killing homer here, please!

132 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:42 pm

c''mon Alex

133 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:44 pm

Hey, 130 - 132, now I know what it's like to be a sandwich.

134 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:46 pm

Alex and Zilla serve up the double decker shit sandwich.

135 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:46 pm

heh.. don't fucking bunt here Swish

136 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:47 pm

Maybe the Yankees are trying to lose games to Texas? It sure seems that way.

137 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:49 pm

WIlson was nasty. Bollocks.

138 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:49 pm

Swish makes it a triple decker shit sandwich.

139 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:49 pm

I guess that was good pitching, but he sure got favorable calls on pitches inside to righties, outside to Matsui.

140 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:49 pm

[126] There are better metrics to assess a pitcher's performance than WHIP and ERA.

[128] Proctor's workload hasn't been out of the ordinary; he went from 133 to 85 to 69 to 87 to 102 to 86 innings. Having said that I wish Girardi used Hughes more, even if it meant implementing rules.

141 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:50 pm

This Ron Washington really has to stop bringing in his best relievers. Girardi needs to explain to him that it's no fun if the manager gives his team its best chance to win.

142 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:51 pm

[140] Only if you want to use them to predict the future. For judging the past, ERA is still the best.

143 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:54 pm

DIPS are honestly the best metrics to judge a pitchers performance, things like FIP and DICE...but they're about as easy to understand as Chinese pig latin

144 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:55 pm

[142] It depends on exactly what you're trying to judge. Using ERA means you are going to be giving pitchers credit for some good luck and blame for some bad luck. (The component that isn't predictive is luck, to a first approximation.)

145 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Dude can hit, no doubt.

146 rbj   ~  Aug 27, 2009 3:58 pm


147 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:00 pm

[142] If you can use these metrics to predict the future, I'm sure you can use them to show how well a pitcher has done in the present and past.

148 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:00 pm

[144] Luck aside, runs are the name of the game. Once the game is over, creidt goes out the window. All the metrics from this game will say AJ Burnett was excellent, but he gave up 3 runs in 6 innings. You can point to a whole host of mitigating factors, but this game boils down to three batter stretch that AJ let get away from him. I prefer to hold him responsible for that outcome.

149 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:01 pm

Just think about the possibilities if Girardi had a clue and used Hughes for two innings in this game?

150 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:03 pm

[147] If a pitcher can throw 200 MPH but gives up 4 runs a game because the catcher can't really catch his pitches, he is a poor performer. Once the game is over, all that matters is how many runs were given up versus how many were scored.

151 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:04 pm

[148] I prefer to give no credit or blame for luck. So maybe that's just a fundamental difference.

Anyway, I guess we agree that it's better for the future to have a pitcher who's given up a bunch of unlucky runs than a guy who's luckily prevented runs. So, this game is a good sign for AJ, but plainly not a good result.

152 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:04 pm

[148] wait so thats NOT Girardi's fault?? Well I'll be

153 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:06 pm

[151] The only problem with that is AJ has an entire career of his ERA lagging his ability. My point was after watching him this season, I can now see why that it is. I still like AJ and think he is worth having, but I've alway thought he should be a dominant ace and never really new what kept getting in the way.

154 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:07 pm

[152] Point?

155 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:09 pm

[154] Snark.

but seriously, I don't see how Burnett's failure is his sole responsibility yet the shortcomings of Swisher the other night or Coke today are out of their hands.

156 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:09 pm

[153] Not exactly following you.
You mean in Burnett's case, the ERA is a better predictor than the "advanced" statistics?

157 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:09 pm

[150] No, it means you need to take Venus De Milo out of the catcher's spot.

158 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:10 pm

Ron Washington has impressed me in this series...he is using his best relievers for more than a few batters and in the right spot, he bunts with his lesser hitters and didn't show any sentimentality with Nippert in the 4th. It's only three games, and maybe they were his best, but I would add him to the list of managers I'd rather have over Girardi.

159 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:13 pm

[155] Burnett's failure is his responsibility because the game situation clearly dictated that he be in it. Swisher should not have been bunting, so I don't blame him for failing. Similarly, Coke should not have been in the game, so I don't blame him for givng up three runs. A manager's job is to utilize his players appropriately. I'd think to think that even Girardi realizes that when your starter is perfect through three innings, you leave him in for the fourth.

160 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:14 pm

[157] Have you ever caught a 200mph fastball? Venus De Milo might be the only volunteer.

161 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:16 pm

6 runs please

162 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:16 pm

I guess Washington has not "overmanaged", which I like. But using the closer here is not a good move, not good at all.

163 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:18 pm

[162] It's actually a good move because his closer has been awful over the past 5 or 6 outings. This is a good, low pressure chance to work on some things and maybe gain a little confidence back.

164 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:19 pm

[159] Not to reopen the Swisher debat BUT just because Swisher shouldn't have been bunting in that situation doesn't mean his failure to properly execute a fairly mundane (relatively speaking of course) offensive task isn't his fault...just as Coke's inability to get lefties out and making a boneheaded play on a sac bunt that went directly to A-Rod is on him and him alone.

come on, I know you love you some "personal responsibility" j/k

165 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:21 pm

As things stand, I think all of the potential post season managers are far less likely to screw up their team than is Girardi, so the Yankees will be playing with a handicap. Like with Torre in his later years, I think the Yankees are going to remain a great regular season team that struggles in the playoffs until they hire a competent manager. I really hope Girardi's mandate is to win the World Series because if simply making the playoffs saves his job, the Yankees will be stuck in the same cycle.

166 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:23 pm

[164] That's all well in good...but to me the root cause of the failure is the man who dictated the strategy.

167 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:24 pm

[164] I'm largely with you, but the fact that the players are responsible doesn't at all mean that the manager isn't responsible.

[163] No, he was very good on Aug 16, Aug 17, Aug 23. He did have a stinker against us and a monumental meltdown that game against the BoSox on the 16th.

168 RIYank   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:25 pm

Well, we had 14 base runners that game. Is there any way we can appeal to SABR to have the outcome overturned?

169 Sliced Bread   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:26 pm

ah well. giving up too many runs lately. gotta stop that trend

170 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:27 pm

Hopefully the White Sox can win one tonight because 5 games is starting to make a race of it. Meanwhile, in a potential playoff preview, the Yankees inconsistent starters (Joba) and awful manager were kind of exposed.

171 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:32 pm

[167] Oh I'm not absolving him of all of his missteps, I just think his supposed incompetence is way overblown relative to all other managers in the majors. I mean if we all decided we we're going to spend 3 straight weeks watching, lets just say, Phillies games we'd come away from it thinking Charlie Manuel was half-a-step above a mouth breathing moron.

I just think both success and failure are a team result, it wouldn't be right if Girardi got no credit for being at the helm of a team that coming into September is looking like the best team in the AL but when they lose 2 of 3 to the Rangers he's the second coming of Stump.

172 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:38 pm

[171] I guess I am not interested in how he compares to other managers. As someone who watches nearly every inning, I just know how often I have completely disagreed with his decisions, many of which eventually had a major hand in losing. In this series, you had the Swisher bunt and the failure to use Hughes. If either of those decisions was not made, I think the Yankees would have an exponentially better chance of winning both games. These aren’t obscure points of strategy. They are bleedingly obvious mistakes.

173 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:42 pm

[172] Well if you're not going to judge his ability relative to other managers then how can you really hope to measure it? Obviously it's not the best measuring stick in the world, but it's really the only one. You're never gonna find the manager you ALWAYS agree with, you just hope to find the one you disagree with least.

174 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:45 pm

[173] There are other competent managers available, including one who I think was among the better game managers in the team's recent history. If I wanted to give the Yankees the best chance to win a World Series, I would fire Girardi and hire Buck Showalter without a second thought.

175 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:47 pm

For some reason, that was a very frustrating series. Maybe the whole leaving a small village on base thing. I came into the series with mixed feelings, but once it started wanted nothing but wins. Texas would not be a pleasant opponent (although I think that team may be in for a rude awakening if they think taking two of three in YS in August is the same thing as what they'll see in October).

My memory is too foggy at the moment to make a rational argument, but there have been a number of times over the last month when I've felt Girardi has made the exact *right* move in spots both obviously and not quite as obviously important.

I really think the Yanks played a shitty series against the Rangers more than anything else. Joba was absolutely dreadful and buried his team, the bats blew opportunity after opportunity, and we sprinkled some errors over an already sickeningly sweet shit souffle of opponent two out and 0-2, 1-2 hits. AJ deserved better, but it was still infuriating to see him undermine his awesome stuff and 5 2/3rds of strength with 1/3 of an inning of maddening crappiness.

We HAVE to punish the stupid White Sox - they're starting to pull my "meaningless stupid team that I have temporary, disproportionate anger towards." Guillen is a massive douche, and they have played the MOST feckless series against the Red Sox - just a disgusting mix of untimeliness, gutlessness, bad managing, suckiness - they need to be punished, and they've put us into a position where we need to punish them.

Team needs to recommit to a better approach, in the batter's box and in the field. Cano has been so lazy running out his outs, it's hard to watch.

And the Rangers came in hungry and played very well.

176 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:50 pm

[175] I meant to say that Girardi has made the right *pitching* moves in my opinion, in a number of spots in the post above. I realized the post hadn't made clear at all what I was trying to say.

177 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:50 pm

[174] Except there's nothing to suggest that Showalter would give the team a better chance at winning a championship.

He was forced out coming off of a great '94 and a furious comeback and playoff collapse (featuring more than a few questionable game decisions) in '95 for a guy with a below .500 lifetime record...so NATURALLY the guy with the losing record goes to the playoffs every year and wins 6 pennants and 4 championships. Just goes to show its impossible to predict who the right guy for the right team is going to be, its a total roll of the dice.

178 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:57 pm

[177] And not only that, his second crack at the playoffs didn't go too well either. Bounced a year later, and the guy who takes over for him wins a championship despite trying to give the series away.

179 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 4:59 pm

[178] EXACTLY! Brenly wasn't just a bad game manager, he was downright horrendous...it was like he was teaching a seminar on how to get fired out there. And yet he gets a ring while Buck sits in Bristol getting hugged by Harold.

180 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:02 pm

As much as I like Showalter, I think that him not having a managerial job since Texas is telling. Either he doesn't want to deal with it, or teams don't want to deal with him.

181 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:07 pm

[143] Whoaaaaaaa - FIP is about as easy to understand as tying your shoes. And at the moment, my opinion is that it is a piece of shit statistic, and used way to often with ridiculous sample sizes. Just look at the formula - it reeks of oversimplification, puts the HR factor off the charts, They already admit that it doesn't work for knuckleballers - but I suspect there are many other pitchers it does not accurate assess. It's been heavily criticized, and there are adaptations of it that have been created to address some of its problems. I do not like plain old FIP.

182 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:08 pm

Ugh, a billion typing errors in that post. I need to jet.

183 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:12 pm

featuring more than a few questionable game decisions

I dunno, I do understand leaving Cone in there. Not too sure about the 3-2 slider. Even though he was lit up the night before, I was a bit surprised that Wetteland wasn't out there to nail it down (he did pitch 3 scoreless innings in game 2, and did get the save in game 1). Rivera was a nice surprise, I'm sure he could've played a bigger role in that series.

Game 4 was pretty wild. Game 2 was the best game I had ever attended until Cone's perfect game in 99.

184 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:15 pm

And at the moment, my opinion is that it is a piece of shit statistic, and used way to often with ridiculous sample sizes.

Like ERA?

185 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:18 pm

I thought Showalter handled the 1995 ALDS well, even if he probably should have gone to Wetteland in game 5 (although I though going to Black Jack was a good idea at the time). Shwoalter's problem has never been managing the game...it's been managing relationships. I am pretty confident that after his experiences in Texas and Arizona, he has learned to ease off a bit. Besides, this team is very low maintenance with the exception of a few players. What the Yankees need is a manager who is exceptionally well prepared and very savy from a strategy standpoint. Showalter is both of those things.

186 The Hawk   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:34 pm

Huh, I left this game with the Yanks down 3-2. Upon my return I found the game over, 7-2 Rangers. Did not expect that. Seems like the Yankees hitters had a bad day. Two runs isn't gonna cut it. The Rangers taking 2 of 3 at Yankee Stadium is bad too. I'm not in love with the idea of losing a game in the standings either. Hopefully the Red Sox lose tonight.

Burnett was okay. If Chamberlain turned in this performance, people would be calling it a gem.

I didn't get to see Girardi screw anything up, but like I said, seems like the batters weren't getting it done today, more than anything else.

187 The Hawk   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:38 pm

[175] "And the Rangers came in hungry and played very well."

Yeah and then there's that. The hungry part makes me nervous.

188 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:53 pm

[175],[187] I suppose they can arrange for a pregame buffet, I suppose...

189 NoamSane   ~  Aug 27, 2009 5:57 pm


you make some great points.
your explanation of what you like about Ron Washington's managing [158] is very clear, with concrete examples. I appreciate that.

but, OTOH [185]
I am pretty confident that after his experiences in Texas and Arizona, he has learned to ease off a bit.
there's pretty much no basis for that statement. Until you're actually in the clubhouse with someone on a regular basis, you're basically guessing/trusting the media's reports. Considering Showalter hasn't been in the clubhouse regularly since his experiences in Texas, even he isn't exactly sure how his current managing persona has changed from before.

I pretty much agree with Raf [180] on Showalter. There's got to be a fairly simple reason why he hasn't managed in years.

190 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 27, 2009 6:39 pm

According to the New York Post's Page Six an "insider" tells the paper that Jeter and "Friday Night Lights" star Minka Kelly are engaged.
Well.... that would certainly kill any future sleepovers for ARod.

191 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 6:44 pm

[184] I'm going to assume that you understood that anyone who posted what I posted recognizes the limits of that statistic, and were just stating the obvious.

I do have some serious concerns about FIP as the proper direction of repositioning the basic concept of something like ERA - from what I can tell, there are better replacements available, and I have plenty of ideas (but neither the data resources/computational muscle power/time) as to what things I would put into a reconfigured stat.

ERA is obviously limited. FIP just seems like a terribly imperfect effort to replace it.

192 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 6:59 pm

[191] FIP is pretty easy, but anyone who claims dERA or DICE is simple is a liar...and quite possibly a terrible human being.

yeah I said it Posnanski!!

193 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 7:23 pm

[189] I am basing my opinion of Showalter on three things: (1) Interviews he has given in which he has admitted to be a little too anal, particularly during his stint in Arizona. (2) Comments from Michael Kay, who is very close to Showalter. (3) His personality on Baseball Tonight. He definitely seems more relaxed as a media person, which I think would actually help him deal better with them on the other side.

[191] I agree with much of what you said. I would also add that while ERA is imperfect, at least it is only a measure of what happened. ERA just tells you how many earned runs were allowed per nine innings. It doesn't pretend to do anything more. FIPS, however, is sometimes portrayed as a magic determinant of what MIGHT have happened under static conditions.

194 Mattpat11   ~  Aug 27, 2009 7:25 pm

I was there for this, in the million degree heat.

I've completely lost patience with Phil Coke. I knew the homer was coming. You knew the homer was coming. He knew he homer was coming. I'm sure Girardi did. Enough.

195 NoamSane   ~  Aug 27, 2009 7:42 pm

[193] I'm sorry, but that's really not very convincing, it's easily explained as lobbying for another managing position ("Take me back, please! I promise I've learned! I'll be better this time! I've changed! REALLY!"),with help from buddy M.Kay. Even Larry Bowa can seem like an easy-going guy in a TV studio, far from the field, when he is commenting on games for which he has no stake in the outcome.

I wouldn't want Showalter as manager.

196 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Aug 27, 2009 7:51 pm

Hey, Team. Home from the Game with the kid and nephew. First of all, the Stadium was nice, but by no means nice enough to justify itself compared to the old place, imo. I did really appreciate just how reminiscent of the old place it is. There were times I actually settled in only to realize later that I was not, in fact, in the ballpark of my childhood. So that's a good thing.
And the al fresco aisles really are fabulous. A great feature. Again, not quite great enough, but credit where it's due.

As to the game itself? Horse shit. By the time we were issued our sixth walk with one run to show for it while they'd been issued two with three runs to show for it, I was mad.

Mad, mad, mad.

It's a good thing we have a lead because I'd have really been throwing things otherwise. As it was, I was able to slough it off easily enough.

Hope I get to go to another game this season. The experience really was every bit as enjoyable as ever. It's a gorgeous field.

Speaking of which, I caught a glimpse of the great void where the old field used to be on the 4, through the sliver in the Stadium. It was deeply unsettling.

I won't say it was as unsettling as suddenly not having the World Trade Center be there, but it was the same genre of unsettlement. It looked like an apocalyptic dream.

197 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Aug 27, 2009 7:52 pm

Oh, and before the game, they had some kind of military tribute or whatever on the big screen, which caught my son's eye, "Oh, the military!...Why is baseball so connected to the military, anyway?"

"Good question, my son, good question."

198 RagingTartabull   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:10 pm

[197] an old college professor of mine actually wrote a book on the origin of that very question


I never read it, but he knew his stuff...although he was a Red Sox fan.

199 Mattpat11   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:20 pm

The Yankees always had a lefty whose entire job was to come in and walk another lefty. I didn't really understand, but everyone else seemed to think it was normal enough.

Now we have the lefty who comes in to give up HR to lefties.

Has baseball passed me by?

200 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:23 pm

[192] Why is DICE complicated? Looks like a pretty simple formula.

I'm someone who loves numbers but has been kind of busy for the last few years, so I'll only start to examine a particular advanced statistic when it starts to get shoved down my throat repeatedly or if it somehow piques my interest at the right moment when I have a little time on my hands.

FIP, though it's been around longer, has seemed to be a big hit this summer, and from everything I can tell so far, I dislike it. Looking at DICE, is the only difference between FIP and DICE the use of HBP and a slightly different adjusting number?

dERA definitely looks complicated.

I always think the big thing people can lose with statistics is the core idea: the goal should always be to reflect reality more accurately, to strip away *real* things so that we are left with the thing we want to examine - I like to think of statistics very visually, almost imagining myself erasing the elements (a third baseman, an excess of foul territory, a really, really stupid wall from a glorified softball stadium, etc.) that I want to strip out so that I can compare the one thing to the other.

I like to believe that this approach makes sure that you hew closer to reality as you push beneath the surface. Remember when people thought defense was overrated and unquantifiable? I wrote a very strong 5/8ths of an article destroying cERA, but also the "proof" that there was no difference between one defensive catcher and another, including all sorts of statistical proof of the inadequacy of the article's positions, and then had my attention diverted. It was obvious to me, from the first moment of looking at what the guy - I think he may have been a university prof - was doing with his catching statistics was ignoring all the realities of what makes or might make two backstops different.

Sometimes thinking about the differences that you know exist or that you think might exist, or that you think could exist, and then trying to statistically represent them to see if they hold up can be a better approach. Just throwing together a bunch of numbers can lead you to make huge mistakes in representing reality. Imo.

[194] The pitch that I knew was going to yield a home run for sure was Burnett's. I knew it with all my heart that Kinsler's HR was coming. I wasn't quite so bothered because I was certain we were going to score a lot more.

Why so much hate for Coke, though? When he's bad, it seems to go really bad, but he's had many more good outings than bad ones over the last two months, including some reasonably big spots, no? Particularly when used as a LOOGY for one or two batters, I've liked what I've seen.

I know he was atrocious today. Of course, I don't think it helped him to have ARod stumble right into his kitchen to stand there and be all obstacle-like when he tried to field the bunt. And I think that rattled him. Anyone have a stat for that? "Fielding success on ground balls when interfered with by an all-star third baseman with an only partially repaired hip and sometimes questionable judgment." Or even just how to strip that sort of event out of broader performance...

Show/Hide Comments 201-215
201 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:26 pm

[198] He won't be happy if he's watching now. 8-0 White Sox in the 4th. Those 2nd place bastards will have the tying run on deck eventually.

202 jjmerlock   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:29 pm

[201] Wait - the gutless White Sox have finally done something right and put an end to the ridiculous dancing through the rain drops without getting wet that The Sawx New Japanese ACE!!^! has been doing?

I've been so angry with their performance that it makes me all the more likely to go ballistic if we don't handle them at the Stadium.

203 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:43 pm

[198] Cool, thanks!
[199] Heh heh heh he heh heh heh.

204 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:49 pm

The game looks like one I should skip this evening on the mlb.com archive..at least the White Sox came to play, finally!

205 Mattpat11   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:52 pm

[200] I think Coke is just too homer happy to be trusted in the late innings.

206 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:55 pm

Why is baseball so connected to the military, anyway?”

National pastime. The military is just as American as baseball. There were a lot of ballplayers that served. Bob Feller, for one holds his military accomplishments in higher esteem than his baseball accomplishments.

wrote a very strong 5/8ths of an article destroying cERA, but also the “proof” that there was no difference between one defensive catcher and another

Overall, there really isn't... I would suspect that cERA would fall to the variances of SSS, anyway. Defensive wizards behind the plate are nice, but I'd be willing to wager that given a choice, a team would go with a catcher than can hit over a catcher who can't but has a good glove.

What diverted your attention, I may ask.

Anyone have a stat for that? “Fielding success on ground balls when interfered with by an all-star third baseman with an only partially repaired hip and sometimes questionable judgment.”

SSS... Doesn't happen enough to warrant a stat.

207 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:57 pm

Wait – the gutless White Sox have finally done something right and put an end to the ridiculous dancing through the rain drops without getting wet that The Sawx New Japanese ACE!!^! has been doing?

It annoys me the Yanks didn't torch that ham and egger last weekend...

And the Red Sox are rallying as I type this; back to back jacks, and a bad hop single.

208 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 8:59 pm

[205] I believe people here were wondering why Hughes wasn't in the game.

209 Just Fair   ~  Aug 27, 2009 9:47 pm

Nick Green pitching in the 8th down only 9-2. That outcry over Swisher pitching was a little too over the top. Wonder if this gets the same buzz.

210 Raf   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Green's doing a pretty good job, I must say

211 randym77   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:05 pm

Whoa. Why is Nick Green pitching in that situation? Is the Sox pen that hard up?

This year has got to be some kind of a record for this kind of disaster relief pitching.

212 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:09 pm

You can't contain Nick Green!
(how did we ever let this guy go?)

213 williamnyy23   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:22 pm

[195] I am not trying to convince you. The only people who need to be convinced would be a prospective employer. From my standpoint, I am confident that Showalter has learned from some past mistakes on the people side, but to be honest, I think his accumen as a game manager would still make him an attractive choice for this team. If the Yankees could make one deadline acquisition, I think a swap of Girardi for Showalter would make the biggest difference. I hope I am either wrong or the Yankee talent proves supreme, but I have a feeling this same conversation will be ongoing in October.

214 Joel   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:37 pm

[213] Maybe I came to this discussion a bit late, but are you saying that you want to replace the manager of a team with the best record in the game and a 6 game divisional lead with 35 to go?

215 NoamSane   ~  Aug 27, 2009 10:59 pm

[213] It seems strange that you were presenting evidence to support your point if you weren't trying to convince anyone. You definitely seem confident about Showalter is a different man than he was, that's apparent. I'm equally confident that he's a control freak that tends to rub a lot of folks the wrong way once the pressure of a baseball season starts mounting. There's quite a few more writers hounding you constantly and more tabloid banner headlines mocking you and calling you out in NY than in TEX or ARI.

I think Girardi is a reasonably good manager, capable of delivering a World Serious Championship. Right now the Yankees should be considered the favorite or among the top 2 or 3 favorites to win it all. If they don't, it's most likely going to be CC, AJ, Andy &/or Joba who is the biggest reason.

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