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Golden Oldie

Over at SI.com, Joe Sheehan offers this appreciation of Derek Jeter. And while you are there check out Cliff’s 10 worst contracts in baseball history.

Categories:  1: Featured  Baseball Musings  Yankees

Tags:  Derek Jeter  joe sheehan

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1 Jon DeRosa   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:17 am

You've got a game of post-WW2 all-stars vs pre-WW2 all-stars. Who starts at SS for the modern guys? Cal or Derek?

2 ms october   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:19 am

just looking at jeter's numbers this year in comparison to his career line it is really interesting how his walk rate and k rate is down and his babip isn't out line with the rest of his career.
all of his homers in chicago were pulled. what's that site where you could look up where his other homers were hit?

3 monkeypants   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:27 am

[2] http://hittrackeronline.com/

He has a very even distribution this year. HIs HR/FB rate is way up this year, as Sheehan notes, but I am not so sure that is attributable to "fortune" (as Sheehan posits). Jeter has pulled ore HRs this, relatively speaking, and most of his HRs have been well struck.

We'd need to see an overall hit spray chart, but I wonder if his "tweak" for this season is to be even more aggressive and to try to pull some more pitches.

4 Alex Belth   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:32 am

1) Probably Cal. But you could make a case either way, I think. A Rod too.

5 ms october   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:34 am

[3] thanks.
that would be my guess - that he is jumping on the first fastball he sees and where he can he pulls it some.
his 1st inning stats and 1st pitch triple slash are respectively:

6 monkeypants   ~  Aug 23, 2012 10:51 am

[5] Jeter's distribution this year:

6 to LF, 5 to RF, 1 to dead CF. A few NYS cheapies, but several over 400 feet. His average HR distance this year is a respectable 387'. Compare that to last season, when he pulled 2 and wen the other way 4 times...though his HRs were longer last year (I won't put the link because multiple links usually sends my comment to the spam purgatory). In 2010 he pulled 5 and went the other way with 6, plus one IPHR. In 2009 he pulled 4, went straightaway for 2, and the other way for 12!

7 Ben   ~  Aug 23, 2012 11:45 am


It's gotta be Jeter over Cal. Cal gives you a little more power, 7 more hrs and 12 more RBI. Jeter gives you more total bases and average. They were very similar, but batted in different spots in the line-up. I might hazard that if Ripken batter 1st more and Jeter 3rd, the stats would swap too. Plus Jeter is still at SS in his 17th year and Cal switch to 3rd after 15 years.

Plus this is a Jeter Thread. Blasphemers.

8 Alex Belth   ~  Aug 23, 2012 11:56 am

Cal was much better in the field though. But I think you are right in that you can't really go wrong with either man.

9 Ben   ~  Aug 23, 2012 12:20 pm

I don't remember really noting him in the field. He was really much better? I like the way Jeter plays short -he's like Ringo Starr. Not as good as other parts of his play, but solid. I know some people feel Jeter is terrible. I've never felt that way.

10 ms october   ~  Aug 23, 2012 12:36 pm

[6] thanks mp.

11 RIYank   ~  Aug 23, 2012 12:57 pm

Yeah, I don't really remember Ripken's fielding, and I don't put much faith in defensive stats.
But at bat, Ben is underselling Jeter, I think. Jeter had more power than Ripken. He has fewer homers but only because he's played three fewer seasons! Of course, hm, Ripken's final three years were bad, so maybe just looking at average power and average OBP is not fair to Cal. So, okay, maybe it's close.

12 Jon DeRosa   ~  Aug 23, 2012 1:10 pm

[11] Jeter and Ripken have similar SLG, but that's not the same as saying they have the same power. Jeter's SLG is propped up due to his superior batting average, and that's all singles. Jeter also played in an era when homers were far more common.

Even without an era adjustment, in terms of isolated power, Ripken wins easily .172 to .136.

13 Alex Belth   ~  Aug 23, 2012 2:03 pm

I remember RIpken as a great fielder. Jeter I think is a good one.

14 RIYank   ~  Aug 23, 2012 2:57 pm

[12] Ah, very good point.
(Of course, you also have to make the park adjustment -- old YS for righties depressed power numbers.)

15 Jon DeRosa   ~  Aug 23, 2012 3:03 pm

[13] I think Jeter is a good fielder, over the course of his career, in the sense that he fielded the ball soundly and threw fairly accurately.

He's not a good fielder in the sense that most other shortstops turn grounders into outs that Jeter lets past as singles. I think this was hard to detect when he was younger and is now fairly easy to detect. There's a lot of times when a grounder to short looks like an out off the bat and then isn't.

Whether this means the Yankees have allowed hundreds of extra runs because he's been playing SS for 18 years, I don't know, but if they're wrong it's probably by the degree of badness, not that he's actually good and they missed it.

16 joejoejoe   ~  Aug 23, 2012 11:00 pm

I love how many of Cliff's bad contracts got dumped at 20 cents on the dollar to new teams and then the players stunk even worse for their new team and then washed out of the league. As bad as the Mo Vaughn deal was with the Angels, the Mets look even worse for trading for him at full price in the middle of it. Hey, there is something wrong with my liverwurst sandwich. Or really? Can I have a bite? Sure thing, Steve Phillips...in fact you can have the whole thing.

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