"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

How to Win the Serious


Be like Reggie.

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1 Cru Jones   ~  Nov 3, 2009 3:45 pm

surely this isn't a reference to utley's heroics, is it?

2 Bama Yankee   ~  Nov 3, 2009 3:53 pm

What'choo talkin bout Mr. October?

3 Alex Belth   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:08 pm

Utley, what's an Utley?

4 Just Fair   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:12 pm

[3] Wasn't that the dorky red hair friend with glasses? : )

5 Sliced Bread   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:15 pm

Reggie and Utley have very Diff'rent Strokes (see what I did there?) and I'll take Jackson's more violent and powerful upper-cut everytime.

6 ms october   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:35 pm

utley's hair will be like mr. drummond's soon

7 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:37 pm

Can I just add that whilst the Yankees continued pitching to said Utley, the homeruns he hit were from pitches in middle of the plate. It's not like he reached out and drove one.

Suffice it to say, he doesn't seem to problems with lefties.

8 ms october   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:41 pm

[7] yeah he has hit mistakes (unlike werth who has smashed some pitches he shouldn't have been able to get) - just remember though that andy is the one starter he hasn't hit - we just need the battlecat to keep chutley in check again tomorrow

9 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 4:51 pm

[8] True. Werth can put all sorts of pitches in play. Like Guerrero. Chasers.

And true, Andy's cutter should.....cut.

As for Utley's hair, it reminds me of an antagonist in an episode of Mannix. Remember Joe? Or am I aging myself?

10 Sliced Bread   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:04 pm

[8] good name for a cheesy sitcom: "Chutley In Check"

The pitch: can a dashingly handsome guy from Philadelpha balance his ridiculously successful professional baseball career with his heartfelt desire to rescue every stray animal in North America? And how much good-natured ribbing can he possibly take from his macho buddies Shane (as himself), Jimmy (as himself) and Ryan (as himself)? Chase Utley IS "Chutley In Check".

The pilot episode: Chutley scores a multi-million dollar endorsement deal promoting a line of men's hair care products, but problem is: the corporation tests its products on animals. Will Chutley sell-out? or can he and his buddies convince the corporation to change its evil ways? One thing's for sure, hilarity always ensues on "Chutley In Check."

11 Sliced Bread   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:19 pm

promotional consideration for "Chutley In Check" provided by:
the all-new 2010 Ford Centaur: "Drive one like ARod!"

12 Bama Yankee   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:22 pm

[9] I remember Mannix. Great show. But I only remember the last couple of seasons since I was just a little kid back then... ;-)


[10] Nice. Join us Wednesday night to see if Chutley is held in Check by the four headed monster they call "Andy/Joba/Phil/Mo"

13 Cliff Corcoran   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:25 pm

[11] I'd love to see Jeter do a commercial for the Ford Centaur.

Utley doesn't have problems with lefties, he crushed them this year (.288/.417/.545).

14 Hugh Mulcahy   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:31 pm

When Posada and Pettite discuss who they can challenge in the zone tomorrow night, they should leave Utley to suck hind tit. I'll be shocked if Pettite gives Utley anything to hit with Howard completely sucking ass against lefties hitting behind him. Gonna be worse for him if Country Joe West gives pitchers his patented Tom Glavine strike zone. If I'm Manuel, I'd be tempted to move Werth up to cleanup just to avoid that scenario but, then, Werth wouldn't see much in the way of strikes either.

15 ms october   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:34 pm

[10] hahahahahha

definitely not a dime a dozen

16 Joel   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:45 pm

How about we start by moving Utley off the plate and getting him to move his feet. He is way too comfortable up there.

17 Hugh Mulcahy   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:48 pm

[16] I've been waiting for somebody to go up and in on Utley (or somebody last night after A-Rod got drilled). Utley doesn't get rattled when you throw at him, though. He generally takes his lumps and takes his base.

18 Raf   ~  Nov 3, 2009 5:56 pm

[16] It would probably be better to throw him something he couldn't hit. The reason he looks comfortable up there is because Yankee pitchers keep grooving pitches to him.

19 NoamSane   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:08 pm

[8] Chutley in Check, starring Scott Baio, err Andy Pettite. That would be nicely diff'rent from most of these Serious games.

20 Mattpat11   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:14 pm

Oh Christ, Joe West is the homeplate umpire tomorrow?

21 NoamSane   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:19 pm

[19] Seems I was late on the draw--[10,11,12]

I vote for coming up and in to the slicked-back one, and I'm fine with an HBP (or 2) if Manual's not going to flip-flop Werth & Howard. Utley's hands are practically in the strike zone, so pitchers should be throwing at him. It's possible pitchers have been leaving the ball over the middle because they lose track of where the plate is with Chut's unusual proximity playing tricks on their vision.

22 Joel   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:26 pm

Mo for 3 innings tomorrow night? Francesa thinks so.

23 Hugh Mulcahy   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:33 pm

[21] Utley led the NL in HBP 3 years running. He ain't Ron Hunt but, he does a mean Craig Biggio without all hte padding. Only one major injury so far (broken hand in '07). If the Phils get a runner in scoring position with less than 2 outs, I would expect the HBP to Utley in lieu of an intentional pass ala Blanton to Rodriguez in the first inning of Game 4.

24 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:35 pm

You guys have me in stiches, as per usual.
[12] Never hoid of it, Bama.

[17] Yeah, that's not how we roll. Many of us have lamented for years that our pitchers are so loath to throw inside with conviction, especially with Ortiz.

25 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:38 pm

[22] Yeah, I caught some of that. Sounds like utter crazytalk to me. He shut down Boston for three six years ago and he's not been lights out quite consistently enough this PS for me to believe that's a good idea.

Game 7, sure, if it comes to it, but that's not a risk I'd take tomorrow with Sabathia starting the next day.

26 Joel   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:42 pm

[25] I also think Joe will let Joba and Marte get him through the 7th (and maybe even the 6th) until bringing Mo in for the 8th and 9th.

27 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 6:42 pm

Jon Heyman
The Yankees have interest in bringing back Johnny Damon -- "We need him," A-Rod said -- but could well get competition from at least the White Sox and Giants. The Cardinals, Braves and Red Sox are among other teams looking for a corner outfielder, though it's hard to imagine him going back to Boston. Before these playoffs, the Yankees were believed willing to go for two years and $16 million for Damon. But that was before his solo double steal in Game 4

28 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 7:02 pm

This has been an awesome thread, thank you all!

Reggie will always be #1 for me.

Imagine though, how would you explain the show "Different Strokes" to people today? Or shows today as contrived as those from the 70s?

29 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 7:06 pm

[27] Being that he's a Boras boy, my guess is that there will be machinations afoot before any deal is made. I can't honestly see the Yankees offering him more than 2 years (with option) even if 36 is the new 26. This team is getting awfully old.

30 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 7:29 pm

Oh Nooooooo Mr. Bill!
Five reasons why the Phillies could pull off a shocking comeback
by Jon (thank God I still have a job) Heyman

1) The Phillies aren't called the Fightin' Phils for no reason
Oh Nooooooo
2) They are road warriors
Oh Nooooooo
3) Chase Utley is currently unstoppable.
What about the other 8 guys?
4) The Yankees lineup isn't all that balanced right now.They'll get the benefit of a hot Hideki Matsui (.556, two homers) in the lineup, and Jose Molina is through hitting, so that's another plus. Derek Jeter, Johnny Damon, Jorge Posada and Alex Rodriguez are at the top of their game now, but two Yankee stars -- Mark Teixeira (2 for 19) and Robinson Cano (3 for 18) (are slumping).
We have 2 guys slumping??
Howard:: .158 .238 .263 .501
Victorino: .167 .273 .222 .495
5) Cliff Lee may not quite be through.
Just on 2 days rest?

Is this meant to make Phillies fans feel better? The Fightin' Phils? Wait... What's that you say Jon?
"The odds are against them, but this resilient bunch can never be counted out."
Well.... not until around midnight on Wednesday!

31 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 8:01 pm

[29] I can't see 2 years. In 2011, with ARod, Jeter, JD and Posada? We will need 2 DH spots. I love JD, but we have to think of the future, not just 2010. We should be thankful we got 4 good years out of him. Matsui has to go too.

JD and Matsui both make $13m. Imagine how much they will get if we offer arb... probably around $15-$16m.

JD with be 36 on Thursday.
Holliday with be 30 in January.
It's really a no-brainer.

32 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 8:47 pm

[30] Hah-hah, Heyman is terrible. And yes, all these "Phils have got the momentum" articles are so lame. Up 3-2 and heading back to NY, yeah, I think we are in good shape!

[31] Say NO to Matt Holiday please.

33 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 8:59 pm

Anyone see the "report" about Brett Myers confronting Cole Hamels in the clubhouse? I'm not a Hamels fan but the guy DID win Series MVP last year..Hamels should have told him to get f#cked..

34 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:05 pm

Wow..they have re-made "V"?? How could they mess with such a classic? And who could possibly be sexier than the woman who played Diana in the original??

I hate off-days, can't they move up the game???

35 The Hawk   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:22 pm

I listened to Francesa talking to Sweeny Murti and it was so annoying. Why have the guy on if you're going to talk over him the entire time? He literally at one point said "Here's what you think" to Murti. It was unbearable, because I'd listened to Francesa earlier and I already was well aware of everything he thought on the subject of Mariano, because he repeats himself so much. But also because he was being so obnoxious and not letting the guy talk.

Anyway, Rivera for three is not something any sane person would insist on.

36 JeremyM   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:33 pm

The thing about when Mariano went 3 in 2003 is that it assuredly wasn't the plan for him to go three, but as I recall he was able to get through innings without exerting a ton of effort. They didn't bring him in during the 7th inning and say 'it's yours'. If you depend on him to go three, what happens when he throws 20 pitches in the 7th? I can't believe that idiot would even think that was an option.

37 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:37 pm

[31] Actually, there was a rumor that the Yankees were willing to give Damon one year, but of course, he'd want more years assuming he has one good contract left in him.

The Yankees need to get younger, but from what I hear, the talent pool isn't that great in the upcoming free agent market. Holliday and Bay are the biggest marquis names.

I'm not sure Holliday figures into Cashman's plans. He didn't fare well in the big boy league.

While I'm not advocating re-signing Damon, he might be a stop gap until someone else comes around. Players like him. His at-bats give our guys an opportunity to view a lot of pitches. He can be a spark plug.

38 JeremyM   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:39 pm

I personally would keep Damon and let Matsui go, but I have no idea as to who I would go after. I'm not sold on Holliday though.

39 RIYank   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:41 pm

[36] Right. Although if Girardi did get it into his head that maybe Mo could pitch three innings, it might encourage him to go to his superstar in some extremely high leverage situation that isn't a classic closer spot.

Still, it's just not what Mariano does. He's really really really good at one thing, and pitching for three innings is not that one thing. Hey, that Albert Pujols is good, maybe he can pitch three innings.

40 RIYank   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:41 pm

I'm not sold on Holliday either.
Making a run at Jason Bay would be amusing, but he'll want five years.

41 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:43 pm

[36] Well said.

42 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:48 pm

[40] I really don't want to see any part of Jason Bay or Matt Holliday..very very over-rated players. Money is better spent on another starter and/or A-Chap, the Cuban Hurricane!

43 RIYank   ~  Nov 3, 2009 9:56 pm

[42] Really? He consistently has an OPS+ of 130. If he's overrated, he must be very highly rated indeed.

44 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:07 pm

[43] You mean Holliday? I am still suspicious of anyone playing in Colorado..I know the stats can be adjusted, but just don't think 5-years for him (at age 30) is a good investment..the O will be fine with A-Rod & Tex in the 3-4 next year..invest in more pitching, please.

45 RIYank   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:15 pm

[44] No, Bay. Sorry.
And I already said, "... but he'll want five years," by which I meant, too risky, don't want him at the end of his career, we did well with Damon but shouldn't push our luck, etc.

46 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:26 pm

[45] You think Boston will offer Bay the contract he's looking for?

47 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:30 pm

[45] It's not the Theo Epstein way. He doesn't fall in love with his product nor does he give long contracts.

48 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:30 pm

I mean [46]

49 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:30 pm

"Anyway, Rivera for three is not something any sane person would insist on."
The real nightmare scenerio is Mo, who has already pitched a lot of innings, goes 3, but unfortunately we still lose. Then, what do we do in Game #7 when Mo is cooked? Actually, if I wanted to design a doomsday scenerio where we blow this series, it would be to use Mo for 3 in Game #6.

[42] Our infield is set for 2 or more years, and hopefully AJax offers an upgrade in CF for 2011 and beyond. EVERY team can always use more good pitching, but we ain't hurting there. We will need to replace Jeter sometime, but I don't think it will be an offensive upgrade. The ONLY place to upgrade our offense (and defense) is a corner OFer.

Both Bay and Holliday will be overpriced, but that is ALWAYS the nature of top tier FAs. It would be worse in a better economy. Unless there is a OFer in the 2011 FA class, I don't see how we can pass on Holliday.

And FTR, Holliday is a much better defender then Bay. We've seen the difference Teix's glove makes. It time to stop ignoring defense when adding players.

50 Yankee Mama   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:34 pm

Are we set with pitching? We couldn't even secure a 4th starter for the WS. Joba is an uncertainty. Wang, who knows? Hughes an uncertainty. We need to properly fill a rotation. Who else is in the wings ready to come up and start?

51 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:35 pm

I think Theo will go after Holliday. Theo values defense.

52 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:47 pm

[50] Are you giving up on talented, cost controlled Phil and Joba? Even as a #3 and #4, they are VERY valuable. We have Catching talent on the farm, and pitching talent also. While AJax looks like a talent, he doesn't project to be an impact guy. And behind AJax, do we have any OFers in the system that might be here in the next 4 years?

53 The Hawk   ~  Nov 3, 2009 10:51 pm

[52] I really hope they don't attempt to put both Joba and Hughes in the rotation next year.

54 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:01 pm

[53] Try them both in the rotation..gamble worth taking cause if they succeed...look at that staff!

55 monkeypants   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:10 pm

[54] Yes, Joba and Hughes both to the rotation next year, without a doubt!

56 joejoejoe   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:45 pm

Rivera's not going 3IP in a Game 6. Is Mike Francesa even a baseball fan? Like it says on the masthead of Bronx Banter, "this ain't football, we do this everyday." You don't shoot your wad in Game 6 when you are UP 3-2 in a 7 game series.

57 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:46 pm

All the commentary about the Yankees having only three starters/ 3-days rest yada yada yada...has everyone forgot that we lost CM Wang for the whole season? A healthy Wang as #3 (or #2) and things look very very different this series.

58 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:47 pm

[56] Mike Francesa has been a joke for years..a bully with limited knowledge of baseball. (Does he even know that much about football?)

59 The Hawk   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:49 pm

[54], [55] You guys are nuts!

60 The Hawk   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:50 pm

[57] I've thought about that ... Can you imagine?

61 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:50 pm

Poor Aki Iwamura, traded from the Rays to the Pirates...and poor me, I can look forward to many more Pirates "highlights" next season now that they have a Japanese player..

62 monkeypants   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:53 pm

[59] Maybe. But I think it's time the organization stop fucking around with these guys in the BP. Put them n the damned rotation and build up their innings. Which leads to my next post...

63 monkeypants   ~  Nov 3, 2009 11:57 pm

[57] I don't generally enjoy reading Steve Goldman, but lately he's been saying what I've been thinking. With regard to the "imagine if we had Wang" thoughts that have come to the fore with the three man rotation in the playoffs, this is merely the culmination of a series of decisions and events that goes well beyond Wang. Goldman sums it up rightly, I think:

If we say Burnett, or (in the future) Andy Pettitte, or CC Sabathia did not pitched well on short rest for reasons other than the missing day, we're making an assumption -- we can't know the real answer one way or another. No one can. That said, can we ask if the decision to change the pitchers' routines was inevitable based on the talent the Yankees have on hand? Heck yes, we can ask, and heck no, it was not inevitable. The "rise" of Sergio Mitre coincided with the infliction of the bizarre and ever-changing Joba Rules II. Had the Yankees been less interested in giving Mitre chance after botched chance, and more alert to other options, such as pulling Alfredo Aceves and his low-leverage innings out of the bullpen (there is another righty long reliever out there) or (dare I say) stop worrying about the eighth inning and let Phil Hughes start, and the Yankees might have had another rotation option now.

64 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Nov 4, 2009 12:15 am

[63] If I ever hear "the Joba Rules" spoken of again next season..if I want to follow a team that continally fails to develop good young pitchers, I'll become a Mets fan..

I feel strangely confident about tomorrow. No way in hell Pedro can duplicate his Game 2 performance, right? Right??

65 Yankster   ~  Nov 4, 2009 1:08 am

The trick with Holliday and Bay is to be an active participant in driving up their price so the team that wins (hopefully not us) will have blow a lot of payroll in a bad year. For that to happen, we have to look very interested. The worst would be to write both of them off now and allow another team to pick them up near market value. The second worst would be paying over market value for them because we lost a game of chicken.

66 Yankster   ~  Nov 4, 2009 1:10 am

I guess, won a game of chicken would be how that metaphor goes... it's too late for me. Thanks for a great thread folks. I can't wait for Joba and Hughes to start next year.

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver